Discussion on Cults

[Jtalia]

Could a Government, Political Party, Corporation, Culture or some social position also be considered a cult.

As I am aware of the fact that many religions who believe themselves to be the absolute right religion, has a leader(s), brainwashing tactics, fear tactics, manipulation, secret agendas and being cut off from the rest of the world.  And there are quite a few Religions that do that today, such as many small Fundamentalist Christian sects, due to strong exclusive doctrines, little tolerance for any other views, constant Fire and brimstone sermons, seem to be unable to reason, and often see themselves as pure, and the only people they should associate with, while seeing the rest of the world as evil, and to be avoided.

But I have noticed that Corporations, parent/gaurdians, cultures, social clubs, political parties, corporations, and schools of thought can seem very cultlike too.

cult type	Fear tactics	Brainwashing	Belief that they alone are right	a leader	manipulation	cutoff communication with the outside world
Religious	Hellfire threats	see themselves persecuted if someone disagrees with them

[grasshopper]

The distinction between the fear tactics employed by doomsday cults, as opposed to the pressures to conform exerted within corporations, revolves around the fact that cults threaten horrific reprisals imposed by supernatural and mythical entities, while corporations merely hold out the loss of employment as the ultimate sanction for not towing the official line.

The indoctrination philosophy of religious cults is certainly based on systematically induced irrational fear, along with the carefully cultivated illusion that the cult leader holds all the answers to the mysteries of the universe, whereas in the secular environment of corporate power structures, the head honcho makes no such mystical pretentions, but merely threatens to impose calibrated economic santions against those who stray from the official script.

[Patrickmeister]

But then, what is the greater punishment? the blackmailing of things that will not happen, or unemployment that destroys any one person, and is likely to happen?

Also, my definition of a cult is a group of people that believe in a certain thing and want to promote that idea to others. If there are two people agreeing on one thing, and they try to convince another person that their idea is right, the two people are a part of their own little cult.

[grasshopper]

Regardless of the nature of the "punishment" imposed within any corporate structure, the activities of cults pose an ENORMOUS threat to individuals and to society, as evidenced by the activities of Islamic suicide bombers who inflict mass casualties in order to qualify for the attentions of 70 virgins in an imaginary heaven, or followers of homicidally deranged but charismatic individuals like Jim Jones and David Koresh who are lured like lemmings to commit murder and suicide in the name of "god".

A person laid off from their job for non-performance will be politely shown the door, after which they will be free to seek alternate employment, whereas a previously subservient devotee of a cult leader who suddenly sees through the mass brain washing regime and decides to rejoin rational society incurs a significant risk of being targeted by hit squads sent by the cult leader, which is of course a fate infinitely more severe than any period of unemployment.

[Patrickmeister]

Cults have gotten a bad rap about most things, but, think about it this way...
Arabs (a cult) fly a plane into a building = 1,000s of people die.
US army comes in to Iraq and kills people and distrupts the life of others = 1,000,000s of people die.

A group of people, who happened to be arabs targetted a nation that they thought was wrong
The US army, a entire nation attacked a nation full of innocent people, just to catch a few outlaws.
Cults aren't as horrible as most think, since that's what they are, cults, which is to say, they are 'small' groups, and therefore can not afflict as many people compared to the US army.

I believe that cults are not that bad.

[Patrickmeister]

also, cults are bad, if their ideas oppose your own, so there are not real bad cults, only people with more power than others.

[grasshopper]

Ha ha it sounds like you might be playing devil's advocate here, Patrick, with your sweeping assertion that "cults aren't bad", and in your likening the US military to a cult on account of its justified and timely response to the 911 terror attacks.  

Perhaps you would have preferred Mr. Bin Laden's training camps to be left alone to produce more suicide zealots, simply because a few innocents stood to perish when the ordnance started to fly.   War is by definition a messy, unfair and imprecise business, but, as the Second World War illustrates, armed conflict can be the most expedient course of action to prevent the triumph of infinitely greater evils.  

[Patrickmeister]

BUT, does it really take the best army in the WORLD, now almost 10 years to kill off a cult? Yes, it's bad to kill people, so, to counteract that killing, like you stated, war is necesary, but, to what extent? When does war become more of a problem than a few suicide bombers? That is my question...

[grasshopper]

Patrick,  a "few" suicide bombers can inflict mass casualties on a scale orders of magnitude greater than the number of attackers, as the 911 collapse of the Twin Towers in Manhattan clearly illustrates, so any country which provides safe havens for the training of such zealots will quickly find itself in the crosshairs for serious military retaliation.

The rugged, mountainous terrain of Afghanistan does not lend itself to rapid troop advances and quick decisive victories, so the annihilation of Bin Laden and his virgin hunters is bound to be costly in terms of time, money and soldiers' lives, BUT, the alternative of remaining passive after 911 would have exposed the free world to a conveyor belt of suicidal loonies trained in Afghanistan.  Negotiating with such demented zealots would have amounted to a perilous waste of precious time, which is why war, that often necessary evil, was declared on those bloodthirsty Isalmic cults by the free world. 

[Patrickmeister]

Ok, listen up, there will always be the good, and the bad. There aint stopping of the bad. Also, why attack 'Iraq'? why not gather a couple of expert hitmen, to kill the Al Quaeda off? Why bomb the mountainous terrain of Afganistan? It may be just a desert to you, but it is a home for many. I believe that to allow evil to happen in the world is bad, but, if to destroy that evil, one must cause more harm than good (the US didn't get the terrorists yet, and probably never will, there are terrorists all over the world, and they bombed Iraq and Afganistan, without much regard for the civilians that were innocent), then, it is wrong.

[grasshopper]

I do understand that war can be a touchy subject, Patrick, especially for those who have loved ones on the front lines, so I respect your stand even as I retain my own perspective.  We can perhaps agree to disagree on this.

[Patrickmeister]

Dude i dont have any family that is american I'm just seeing it in my point of view... I guess I must respect yours too...