Fear of Death... My thoughts please comment :P

[Vortex]

Since i can't edit to add this to my last reply I'll add a new reply:

I find this...

It's like fearing that your eye will be gouged by a demented unicorn.

to be a bad anology. The odds of their being a demented unicorn are so low as to be considered impossible and therefore impossible to be feared rationally. The possibility of oblivion after death is very high comparatively speaking and therefore easily the source of a rational fear.

[Patrickmeister]

ok, then how about stating, that the fear of death is like fearing eventual strength, speed, and well being being gone when you get older. It is completely irrational, as you know exactly what is coming to you within a certain amount of time. In my experience, people fear what is unknown, and unexpected. One can say it is more fearful to know exactly when, and how, something will happen, but, that is because of our beliefs in the supernatural, how everything just isn't in order. Since death is not unheard of, and definitely expected, it is definitely not a fearful thing.

[Vortex]

It is completely irrational, as you know exactly what is coming to you within a certain amount of time

Really? Then if you're tied down on traintracks and see the train barreling down upon you then you should have absolutely no fear. After all you know a good squishing is coming to you and you know it will be in about 30 seconds. Sorry but i find that statement a bit irrational.

Irrational fear is a fear that has no reasonable reason to be feared. In my previous replies i have given examples of why a fear of death has a rational reason to be feared. I'll clarify:

1- IF you believe in hell and have reason to suspect you may end up there then it is logical and rational to fear eternal torment. Whether or not the belief in hell is rational is not the point.

2- IF you believe in oblivion after death and enjoy at least some part of living enough to want to remain living rather than being wiped out of existance, then the fear is the fear of losing something you consider valuable, i.e. life.

3- even a mild fear of the unknown is not without reason or rationale.  Being unknown means it could be anything and therefore could be bad. Knowing the outcome reduces or eliminates the odds of a bad outcome and therefore reduces the rational fear of it. However if the fear or apprehension outweighs the likely odds of a bad outcome then yes it becomes an irrational fear.

Both examples 1 & 2 are reasonable conclusions and therefore rational fear.
Example 3 shows the difference between rational and irrational fears of the exact same thing.

[Patrickmeister]

"Knowing the outcome reduces or eliminates the odds of a bad outcome"

It is not true, as you know from the day you're born, you will die some day. knowing that fact for a good 80 years till you die doesn't change the fact that you will die.

"Irrational fear is a fear that has no reasonable reason to be feared."

It is true, which means that since when we die, all our bodily functions stop, we simply are gone, therefore, there is no reason to fear something that will eventually come to you, which everyone else had gone through just once in their lifetimes. Something is only fearful if you do not know much about it, but, death, is quite known to people. It is irrational to fear what come after death, as your bodily functions are gone, and therefore your existance had been destroyed, therefore, you won't see what comes after death most likely.

[Vortex]

"Knowing the outcome reduces or eliminates the odds of a bad outcome"

It is not true, as you know from the day you're born, you will die some day. knowing that fact for a good 80 years till you die doesn't change the fact that you will die.

This was more directed at the general fear of the unknown that one encounters on a regular basis. However it does apply to death in the manner that one may well know they are going to die but they do not know with 100% certainty what if anything occurs afterwards. Those that say they "know" are exihibiting a "faith" in their own unproven belief. Until either is proven scientifically, neither possibility can be ruled out with 100% certainty using scientific standards. Only probabilities would apply.

I revert to my 3 previous examples, 2 of which show rational fear and the 3rd which shows both rational and irrational fears of the same thing.

[S. Earl Martin]

Question? Have any of you been with someone when they died? Did you wonder where they went? How one moment they were there and then the next they were gone? We know matter and energy are never lost, but are changed. Where did the energy that sustained them go? Life is more than electricity. Or a bunch of chemicals mixed together. It takes life to make life. Scientists have claimed to have created life. They took a living cell and replaced the entire DNA structure and claim to have created life. The cell was alive when they started. If they can take a dead cell and bring it back to life. Or a mixture of chemicals and bring it to life. Then that would be creating life.
No matter what we believe happens when we die. It takes faith. As was stated it is impossible to measure using scientific standards. So eye witness testimony is all we really have. I have seen Heaven and I have no fear of death. As this world self destructs I am even more sure of an after life. If you could chose eternal nothingness or an eternity of Joy and Peace. Which would you chose? An eternity of loneliness or an eternity of being with the ones you love. Which would you chose?
I chose life. I am going to exsist forever.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. This is the whole of the law and the path to rightousness. Peace Earl     

[Patrickmeister]

but, on the other hand, it was impossible to go to space, before, now, we have regular trips to the moon, so, it could be that we did not find out the way to create life yet, and that life, is indeed something artificial...

[docjp]

I have already had several discussions about this and similar topics on this sight. VooDoo Scientist and I have had quite a lengthy debate about it. Who believes in God?  Peace!   

When one dies, ones Soul with MIND attached [neither of which are physical] are taken to a "judge", and together ones past life is evaluated in terms of how well one did working through ones Fate Karma for that life. At death ones Soul with MIND attached simply vacate ones physical body, which does disintegrate into its constituent energies.  But ones Soul is Permanent, and an Absolute Energy as an aspect of God.  After evaluating ones Fate Karma for one last life, one then designs a new Fate Karma for one nest life.  Then one spends some time in some heaven or some hell, depending upon which one "needs" or has earned.

When ones next life is "ready" one is incarnated to continue ones exploration of the Creation.  The book:  The Path of the Masters, by Julian P. Johnson, is an excellent book for research into this topic.

Peace

[Vortex]

Scientists have claimed to have created life. They took a living cell and replaced the entire DNA structure and claim to have created life. The cell was alive when they started. If they can take a dead cell and bring it back to life. Or a mixture of chemicals and bring it to life. Then that would be creating life.

I'm very much into science and logic however when I saw that "science" show had made such a false claim i had to bring the entire family in to show them a perfect example of a science show wildly exagerating the facts. I pointed out as you did that they started with living matter and therefore DID NOT create life, they simply manipulated it. While I believe it's likely we will be able to someday... today is NOT that day.

but, on the other hand, it was impossible to go to space, before, now, we have regular trips to the moon, so, it could be that we did not find out the way to create life yet, and that life, is indeed something artificial...

I couldn't agree more. We do not have the technology or understanding yet to accurately test what is life. A good test bed once we are capable would be:
1- Confirm the death of the subject.
2- completely repair any damaged tissue
3- somehow restart the functions (future tech required)
4- see if the same person emerges mentally
5- cause death and repeat process with greater wait times til resurrection. (unethical but... )
This would be good scientific evidence that we are merely the sum of our parts.

eye witness testimony is all we really have. I have seen Heaven and I have no fear of death.

Logic is also something we have. Many scientific truths have been reasoned through logic experiments long before they were able to be proven. Einstien is one of the most famous that used this to an astonishing degree... the man was...  a giant among men. We cannot dissmiss psychological factors as well as other reasons an experience cannot be trusted as evidence to anyone BUT the person experiencing it. I have had my "experiences" but had concluded they were delusions in the face of no evidence to support or being able to reproduce the results.
It is also worthy of note that experiments on the brain using electode stimulation as well as recent magnetic stimulation has evoked supernatural experiences within the subjects. This evidence cannot be ignored when evaluating the odds or probability of "experiences" being genuine and not a state of mind.

When one dies, ones Soul with MIND attached [neither of which are physical] are taken to a "judge", and together ones past life is evaluated in terms of how well one did working through ones Fate Karma for that life. At death ones Soul with MIND attached simply vacate ones physical body, which does disintegrate into its constituent energies.  But ones Soul is Permanent, and an Absolute Energy as an aspect of God.  After evaluating ones Fate Karma for one last life, one then designs a new Fate Karma for one nest life.  Then one spends some time in some heaven or some hell, depending upon which one "needs" or has earned.

Of course this is complete speculation with no hard evidence.