How can I be on the same mental level as everybody else?

[Enigma]

No, hamburgers are not social constructs because they exist in reality. 

@SWM:  The way I see it, there are two types of realities.  External reality, which encompasses the physical/tangible world, and internal reality, which is constituted of our individual thoughts/feelings/emotions/etc.  These two realities combined constitute the "real" world. 

When I said earlier rights are societal constructs and do not exist in the real world I should have said they don't exist in external reality.   

[iliw]

go away, unwholesome person.   I doubt you are in real life.  I am.  Why aren't you?

what you're saying doesn't even make sense.

you're simply trying to deny me what is rightfully mine.  and you're demonstrating improper social interaction, despite being psychology professionals/students.  you guys should know better.  proper social interaction is that you don't dismiss a stranger's standpoint, especially somebody who has not troubled you in any prior fashion. 

I'm done here.  you all don't seem like very wholesome people, and if this is how you are in real life, boy.  i feel sorry for those whom associate with you closely. 

the fact remains, and will perpetually remain, that if i want to be mentally at the normal (even superior) par, it's my prerogative.   No force on this Earth can, or should, stop me. 

Im new and haven't  this whole thread but when reading the level of vocabulary you use in your responses it doesn't seem that you are below the average mental level(not that there is a designated level)

Sometimes being on the same mental level really just means being more aware and noticing the different aspects of people. Mental levels can many times just be a concept.  When people are looking at your mental level they are comparing you to themselves and others that they know.  Many times just understanding how others think and how you present yourself can help.

some stuff to try:
Credibility and respect:  what ever your actions and words are, that is what people see.  If you build your credibility and respect others they will respect you back.  This is one o those way over used pieces of advise that school constantly emphesize. This may be one of the only helpful things I ever learned in school.

You have to say your ideas with confidence too. If you sound unsure people will pick up on that.

Never look shallow. Although people will listen to nearly any gossip you have, it wont help.

While you dont want to be shallow you also dont want to walk up to some one for the first time and be too deep.  once you know someone better you will be more accepted when you say deep things.

Before you say something that you are unsure of or really when your having a conversation at all, think of how you would react if the person you were talking to said that. 

WATCH PEOPLE
always always watch people. I dont mean stare at them but see how they act.
watch for their little gives, for example theres the more obvious ones:
*looking around and fidgeting or checking the time=agitated
*bitting lips, tensed, furrowd brows=angry or annoyed
*persing lips,looking down, sniffing a bit, avoided eye contacted=sad or shame
(you have to judge the situation because they are not always to the letter)
if you better know people and are generally more aware it will help


Lastly:  When I got depressed a few years ago a I spent more and more time on forums and less time face to face with people.  Its the worst thing you can do. You may take a break from interacting with people but the rest of the world never stops.  You seem to have followed the thread for a while when you could be out interacting with people.

[ghost331]

Hold a staff or a broomstick behind your neck

Hold a staff or a broomstick behind your neck, with your arms outstretched along the staff.  Standing with your feet shoulder width apart, slowly turn your body as far to the left as possible, hold for a second, then slowly twist to the right, as far as possible.  Repeat 10 times to each side, and each time try to turn a little further.

[grasshopper]

Whew.  Ghost3331, I am standing by to see just how this back stretching exercise, which I happen to do regularly, relates to the topic under discussion in this thread.  I must be missing something really deep here, saddled as I am with a brain whose cognitive functions are limited to processing the very obvious.

Also, I am on the edge of my seat in anticipation of learning the reason why the make and model of golf club used in this procedure warrants that special mention in your comments.  I've got my conical thinking cap on here, but nothing is happening, so help me out, if you will.

[SWM]

wohoo, i love it, this is the best thread ever!!

[iliw]

Is this an exercise forum now?

Hold a staff or a broomstick behind your neck

Hold a staff or a broomstick behind your neck, with your arms outstretched along the staff.  Standing with your feet shoulder width apart, slowly turn your body as far to the left as possible, hold for a second, then slowly twist to the right, as far as possible.  Repeat 10 times to each side, and each time try to turn a little further.

Whew.  Ghost3331, I am standing by to see just how this back stretching exercise, which I happen to do regularly, relates to the topic under discussion in this thread.  I must be missing something really deep here, saddled as I am with a brain whose cognitive functions are limited to processing the very obvious.

Also, I am on the edge of my seat in anticipation of learning the reason why the make and model of golf club used in this procedure warrants that special mention in your comments.  I've got my conical thinking cap on here, but nothing is happening, so help me out, if you will.

[iliw]

But hamburgers are created by human society and effort, and thus don't occur in nature.

No, hamburgers are not social constructs because they exist in reality. 

@SWM:  The way I see it, there are two types of realities.  External reality, which encompasses the physical/tangible world, and internal reality, which is constituted of our individual thoughts/feelings/emotions/etc.  These two realities combined constitute the "real" world. 

When I said earlier rights are societal constructs and do not exist in the real world I should have said they don't exist in external reality.   

[iliw]

Hmm.   what stumps is why the continual denial of human freedom here.   

Whew.  Ghost3331, I am standing by to see just how this back stretching exercise, which I happen to do regularly, relates to the topic under discussion in this thread.  I must be missing something really deep here, saddled as I am with a brain whose cognitive functions are limited to processing the very obvious.

Also, I am on the edge of my seat in anticipation of learning the reason why the make and model of golf club used in this procedure warrants that special mention in your comments.  I've got my conical thinking cap on here, but nothing is happening, so help me out, if you will.

[ghost331]

all hamburgers are created equally and they all have the fundamental right to be eaten.

[iliw]

all hamburgers are created equally and they all have the fundamental right to be eaten.

eh?  My point was that the social framework we live in provides me this right. keep up, dumbass.  all human actions are defined via social frameworks.  you're posting on a psychology forum, and perhaps are a psychology professional, and you don't know that?  lmao!!!

I don't know why I am responding. You sound like a scamp; not worthy of decent people's time.

[iliw]

you know what?  I won't respond here again.

You are trying continual efforts to deny me, and for what? lol..  we don't even know each other.

The situation is thus:

- You clearly don't understand social interaction much.  You probably feel that I am being disrespectful to you, but you are being disrespectful to me.  Respect is always reciprocal, all social interaction is.  I am human, as much as you.  If you dispute this, you need courses in humility and social discourse/intercourse.

- You say my vocabulary is advanced. So?  Wellington is a city in New Zealand.  I can spout empty facts too.  If you're stating that I already seemed reasoned, so what?  Is advancement and improvement wrong?  Are you saying people would feel aggreived WHEN I am at my desired level?  What right do they have to be so?  Are these people warped mentally?  Is my first bullet point applicable here?

[iliw]

wohoo, i love it, this is the best thread ever!!

best thread how?  because you all are warped and retarded?  somebody you don't know asks for something and get all defensive lmao!!!   

fools. 

[iliw]

eh?  lol..

look bud, I don't act respectfully to unwholesome people.

Nothing you have said is per any psychological text.  you talk BS.

i would hit all of you if this were real life, you deserve as much.  life is shitty, as you proclaim, so we hold the right to cause others pain.

i would do so, since:

- you tell total strangers how to act.  i am a free human being.  who are you to do so?  There is nothing supremely special about you or anybody else.
- you don't sound like nice/normal people.  denying things from people you don't know is hardly so, is it?
- i bet NOTHING you've told me is per any standard psychological text, or even social/moral norm.  lmao!!  pricks.

you are denying.  why deny somebody something you don't even know, and that has no effect on your own life?

You think so, that I deny?  "The word of Sin is Restriction."  I tell you iliw that I encourage your growth, but it is you that must open your eyes.  If you feel that you have been slighted by default then you are the only one who can overcome it.  If you feel that others oppress you, then you must defeat that standpoint.  It is through the darkest of nights that the Light appears the greatest.  No person can deny you anything.  If it seems that they can, then it is a flaw in your own outlook.  Existence is anthropocentric.  You, YOU, hold the key iliw.  You can misconstrue my words as you might see fit to your apparent purpose, but I assure you that you have the ability to overcome any obstacle that you can recognize or discover.

[grasshopper]

all hamburgers are created equally and they all have the fundamental right to be eaten.

Ha ha ha   And there you have it.    The Oracle has spoken, but I must repeat those sage words with only a slight amendment thus :   " All hamburgers are created eqaul, but double cheese burgers with grilled onions are in fact more equal than others, and are thus more eligible to be eaten by the discerning few. "

In conclusion, may I also add that I feel more like I do now than I did before I said so.



 

[SWM]

iliw has liberated himself from the hold we have over him. he is now free to be mentally equal and he has taken this right for himself by his own power.

[pert -5]

I'm gonna miss that mutant. 

[Vortex]

I must admit I found this thread very interesting.  I'm not in psych although I have studied it a bit in order to help me diagnose my own problems and to better understand the real reasons behind peoples actions. Anyway...
First thing I noticed was the spelling of his name, iliw. Whenever i see a name that doesnt make sense to me i spin it around and see if it makes more sense that way. (Possibly a symptom of my own disorder).  Backwards it is wili. Now that could be a referrence to his real name (Willy) or possibly wily which to me makes a lot of sense since this whole thing sounds much like a riddle or philosophical way of testing people in way they think is wily. I may be completely off base but thats how I see it.

After his first couple posts i concluded that he is not really seeking help and that he has alterior motives. He is very intelligent and well studied whether i think his reasoning is rational or not. The appearance of irrationality can easily be me not getting the riddle or some part of it. For example, just because i cannot see the logic a delusional person has used to achieve a belief doesnt mean that I wouldn't if i experienced the same things he has to come to certain conclusions. I read all the posts and i cannot figure out the riddle so i won't try to actually answer it.

It appears to me that a probable motive is to prove that psychology is invalid or that it's practitioners are. If that's the case I would assume that as an intelligent person he also knows that this would actually prove nothing and even if it did what purpose would it serve? If this is the case then the only 2 purposes i can see would be to prove to himself that he is correct in his belief that psych and or it's partitioners are invalid OR try to get practitioners to see a fundamental flaw in their belief. I find the latter unlikely.

It could also be his way of boosting his belief that he is superior because people can't give him what he perceives to be the correct answer.

[SWM]

this really was an interesting situation.

in my opinion there are a couple of possibilities.

if iliw believes that we were conspiring against him, which is something he suggested a couple of times, then he is paranoid and delusion, in which case i would guess he has been given a diagnoses of some sort of disorder, and he trying to prove to himself that diagnosis wrong by confronting "the psychology professionals". this of course is catch 22 for iliw which is why he got frustrated and asked for his account deleted.

the other possibility is that iliw is a sock puppet of somebody that wants to test the reactions of members to certain principles that were presented in the form of an irrational individual.

[Vortex]

the other possibility is that iliw is a sock puppet of somebody that wants to test the reactions of members to certain principles that were presented in the form of an irrational individual.

I considered that but dissmissed it since if that were the case I firmly believe he would have eventually ended the charade with a disscussion on the conclusions he had come to in order to better educate (even if his conclusions were a falacy).

I can't completely put my finger on it (like the feeling you get just before realizing the answer to a riddle) that although much seemed completely irrational I kept getting the sense that there was un underlying logic or rationale that I was just not perceiving mainly because of either lack of complete information OR because I was potentially misinterpreting his definition of words. I know others thought of the latter since many kept requesting him to explain his definition of words he used.

I know as a person who has and continues to battle delusional states of mind that intelligence can be an obstacle to being "talked down" from those states. An intelligent and well educated mind is capable of and does use logical valid conclusions to circumnavigate the "helpers" logic. I'm not saying the final conclusions of the delusional mind are valid but how they arrived at those conlusions are many times based on valid philosophical or scientific conclusions and used as the "building blocks" of the resulting delusion.

In this regard, if the "helper" doesn't have the same level of intelligence or education or subject expertise, it can become obvious to the delusional person and reduces the chances of breaking through since the subject will become more dissmissive of the helpers conclusions. I have read posts by Psych proffessionals disscusing this problem from a point of acknowleging the problem in specific cases they themselves have encountered.

While I consider myself to be of high IQ and well self educated, I saw evidence to consider that he was of superior intellect to myself regardless of the seemingly irrationalality of his arguement.

[SWM]

i agree with your points about intelligence and the helper.

But the discussion about our reactions may not have been forthcoming because the purpose of making an assessment of our reactions may not have been to educate us but to educate themselves about us. This may have been for the purpose of being able to influence, control or manipulate people through this principles. Just a possibility.

What did you think the possibility of iliw trying to disprove his diagnosis by confronting the helpers.

[Vortex]

But the discussion about our reactions may not have been forthcoming because the purpose of making an assessment of our reactions may not have been to educate us but to educate themselves about us. This may have been for the purpose of being able to influence, control or manipulate people through this principles. Just a possibility.

Ah, good catch, I retract my earlier conclusion. That is definitely a possibility.

What did you think the possibility of iliw trying to disprove his diagnosis by confronting the helpers 

Sorry i meant to comment directly on that. I agree and think it is a likely possibility and is what actually lead me to my statements about the helper vs client portion of my earlier reply.

[docjp]

I am always the last to know important things in life, and I want it to stop.

How can I be mentally equal?

The fact is, you can only "be" what you have obtained over many, many lifetimes. Your present intellectual awareness is a combination of what your MIND knows, and the extent to which your Psychology allows you to access what you know. If you have a non-conscious misperception [repressed within your MIND as a trauma] that you do not deserve to experience yourself as knowledgeable , you will be unable to perceive yourself as knowledgeable .  Be content with who you are, since at your Core, you are a perfect Soul.  All else is illusion, and changes each life you live.
http://about-psychology.com/basicpsy.html