Hypnosis Does Not Exist

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I'm posting this and hope common sense will penetrate a few people.

Over 10 years ago I concluded from years of study, observations, experiments & research in psychology, magic & mentalism that hypnosis doesn't exist. It is social psychology & belief & ignorance only that have projected hypnosis into society.

Beliefs are very powerful and can not be penetrated with anything including common sense, logic, evidence. I gave up a long time ago trying to tell people hypnosis doesn't exist. People would get angry at me & use other peoples experiences as proof of their own beliefs ie: 'My sister had hypnotherapy to give up smoking and it worked' or 'My cousin was hypnotised on stage & I saw him' or 'My friend is studying hypnotherapy at college so it must be real'. They get defensive, abusive, verging on the violent & I'm not the confrontational type :-) but they don't realise THEY'RE GIVING MY 2ND HAND ACCOUNTS AS EVIDENCE OF THEIR OWN BELIEFS. This is one way they justify it, another is to say 'When you are driving or watching TV or in class and you suddenly realise where you are' well again that isn't being hypnotised, that's concentration, or lack of it, or daydreaming or not focusing attention. Note: Not hypnotised.

Hypnosis has become embed into our culture and accepted as the norm, yet it's a ridiculous set of ideas that have exploited every avenue possible. Even promising hair regrowth to those follically challenged. Hypnosis is a crock of shit, there are other less ambiguous forces at work (ROLE PLAY AND SOCIAL PRESSURE for one) which is a subject of it's own.

Few people know where hypnosis originated. It began with


Franz Anton Mezmer -  who invented (animal magnetism) and other spiritual forces - Mesmer expounded on certain tides in the human body that might be accounted for by the movements of the sun and moon amongst many other quack ideas which were often grouped together as mesmerism. The evolution of Mesmer's ideas and practices led Scottish surgeon James Braid to develop hypnosis in 1842. Mesmer's name is the root of the English verb "mesmerize".

James Braid - changed his sleep based theory to a psychological one stating that : "The various theories at present entertained regarding the phenomena of mesmerism may be arranged thus:— First, those who believe them to be owing entirely to a system of collusion and delusion; and a great majority of society may be ranked under this head. Second, those who believe them to be real phenomena, but produced solely by imagination, sympathy, and imitation. Third, the animal magnetists, or those who believe in some magnetic medium set in motion as the exciting cause of the mesmeric phenomena. Fourth, those who have adopted my views, that the phenomena are solely attributable to a peculiar physiological state of the brain and the spinal cord." 

Marquis de Puységur (1751–1825), was a French aristocrat from one of the most illustrious families of the French nobility, he is now remembered as one of the pre-scientific founders of hypnotism (then known as animal magnetism, or Mesmerism).[1]

I believe in the existence within myself of a power.
From this belief derives my will to exert it.
The entire doctrine of Animal Magnetism is contained in the two words: Believe and Want.
I believe that I have the power to set into action the vital principle of my fellow-men;
I want to make use of it; this is all my science and all my means.
Believe and want, Sirs, and you will do as much as I.

– Marquis de Puységur[


James Braid - changed his sleep based theory to a psychological one stating that : "The various theories at present entertained regarding the phenomena of mesmerism may be arranged thus:— First, those who believe them to be owing entirely to a system of collusion and delusion; and a great majority of society may be ranked under this head. Second, those who believe them to be real phenomena, but produced solely by imagination, sympathy, and imitation. Third, the animal magnetists, or those who believe in some magnetic medium set in motion as the exciting cause of the mesmeric phenomena. Fourth, those who have adopted my views, that the phenomena are solely attributable to a peculiar physiological state of the brain and the spinal cord."

Very few people at that time beleived in his phenomena which he theorised and concluded was a 'perculiar physiological state of the brain and spinal cord"..  This was hypnosis do you beleive that?

No and not many others did either, which is why it died a death and was forgot about until.

UNTIL

This century Milton Erickson revived it.
Erickson's work on hypnotism was controversial during his lifetime and has remained so to the present day. Some of his central presuppositions have been questioned by other researchers and the opaque nature of his explanations has led to a variety of competing interpretations of his approach.
A friend and colleague of Erickson, the hypnosis researcher André Weitzenhoffer, a prolific and well-respected author in the field of hypnosis himself, has extensively criticised the ideas and influence of Erickson in various writings, such as his textbook The Practice of Hypnotism.[17]
The author Jeffrey Masson dedicated a whole sub-section of his book Against Therapy to criticism of Milton Erickson.[18] Masson questions the accuracy of Erickson's case reports. Regarding Erickson's report of a female patient who was allegedly hypnotised to have spontaneous orgasms throughout the day, Masson writes, "The whole thing is tinged with fantasy and has a feeling of unreality about it." [19]

There is a brief history of the origins of hypnosis. Research the names further. Then research:
Social complance in hypnosis
Penn & teller bullshit hypnosis
Graham Wagstaff psychologist hypnosis
Hypnosis does not exist

Then observe some youtube videos and it becomes obvious stage hypnosis is 'role playing' - social compliance.
Then try telling someone hypnosis doesn't exist and anticipate the hostility you'll recieve and the ridiculous evidence people present to justify their belief, which they've never questioned before.. See how you go.. It's fun.







But will just add a quick analogy here: There was a time when people believed Uri Gellar really did bend spoons with the power of his mind.
We come to 'believe' not through choice but desire. One day people will desire reason, rather than the ridiculous, I'm hopeful.

Video reference: Wikipedia, The Magic Café, The Independent, Liverpool University, amongst other stuff, sound from soundjay.

[SWM]

so much of your statement is based on misunderstanding or misconception that i am not going to waste time picking through it.

To refute the idea that hypnosis does not exist I will cite come references that are reliable sources of information.

The British Psychological Society (BPS) (as opposed to Penn & Teller) present their view and findings of hypnosis here BPS Statement on Hypnosis



The national institute for clinical excellence have an extremely rigoursous process for validating research. the process of how treatments become recommended can be read here NICE clinical guidelines development process.

NICE have recomended hypnosis as a treatment for IBS. The guidance can be read here http://www.nice.org.uk/nicemedia/live/11927/39746/39746.pdf In the Genreal Glossary on p18 there is a brief description of hypnotherapy and its application for IBS. there are other references to hypnosis throughout this document.



In the treatment of obesity Cognitive Behvioural Therapy (CBT) combined with hypnosis has been shown to be more effective than CBT alone. See:
Anderson, M. S. (1985). Hypnotizability as a factor in the hypnotic treatment of obesity. Int. J. Clin. Exp. Hypn., 33, 150-159

Barabasz, M. & Spiegel, D. (1989). Hypnotizability and weight loss in obese subjects. Int. J. Clin. Eat. Dis., 8, 335-341



A number of long term studies have also shown that hypnotherapy alone is superior to cognitive behavioural therapy for treating obesity. See:
Cochrane, G. J. (1987) Hypnotherapy in weight-loss treatment: Case illustrations. Am. J. Clin. Hyp., 30, 20-27.

Bolokofsky, D. N. Spinkler, D & Coulthard-Morris, L. (1985). Effectiveness of Hypnosis as an adjunct to behavioural weight management. J. Clin Psychol., 41, 35-41.

Cochrane, G. J. and Friesen, J.  (1986) Hypnotherapy in weight loss. J. Consult. Clin. Psychol.,

These are just a selection of the clinical applications of hypnosis and there are plenty more applications that have been researched and evidenced.



For further information about Hypnoidal states i.e. Watching TV, Radio, Driving, Daydreaming, which are subjectively experienced as a narrowing of consciousness and an absorbtion of attention away from extraneous stimuli. See:
Sidis, B. (1909) The Psychotherapeutic Value of the Hypnoidal State, The 'Journal of Abnormal Psychology, 1909. http://www.sidis.net/hypnoidal.htm Accessed online 16.09.2010

Weir, D. R. (1995) Trance: from magic to technology. Trans Media, Michigan



For a further discussion of the Neuropsychophysiological phenomena (Which James Braid was postulating) known as hypnosis See:  Crawford, H. (2001). Neuropsychophysiology of hypnosis: Towards an understanding of how hypnotic interventions work. In G.Burrows, R.Stanley, & P.Bloom (Eds.), International Handbook of Clinical Hypnosis (pp. 61–84). New York: Wiley.

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You are missing the point. Hypnosis quickly looses credibility when ones researches the history, the psychology and observation. Have you?

Magicians and mentialst like Derren Brown UK, Chris Angel, Richard Osterlind etc.. Penn & Teller know psychology more than hypnotist.. they use it in their shows to manipulate perception. They know what social compliance is, do you?

Hypnosis is a massive, multi-billion £ industry. You again are doing what I anticipated and back up your belief with reference to text?? What's that about?

Have you ever been hypnotised? Until you have you can't prove anything.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/hypnotism-does-not-exist-say-the-experts-1389968.html

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A VIDEO THAT EXPLAINS BETTER THAN I CAN

[SWM]

i back up what i said with clincial research. you back up what you said by telling me to think about derren brown and freinds and pointing me to magic show on youtube.

get real!

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MAGIC SHOWS ON YOUTUBE?? I don't think so. Again you demonstrate how you presume things.
The show on youtube, demonstates why HYPNOSIS DOES NOT EXIST with research, history, experiments, observations and testimonies.

I'm sorry you're not open minded enough to explore knowledge: history, research & psychology. Openness to expereince is one of the five major recognised personality traits. Only people high on this are open to explore new ideas. Low or middle of this scale is the close minded people who reject without justification anything that contradicts their own belief system.
The test is here.
http://www.psychologistworld.com/influence_personality/fivefactortest/openness_experience1.php
The definition is here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openness_to_experience

You seem to be demonstrating ignorance. Which is what I expected. Clinical research is flawed with false positives, again this comes down to psychology. Ask yourself why do you believe in hypnosis?

WHY HYPNOSIS DOES NOT EXIST
PART 1
PART 2
PART 3

[SWM]

i have provided evidence which is acceptable to the highest clinical standards in the UK. the British Psychological Society are the regulating body for clincial psychologists in the UK. NICE, the National Institute For Clinical Excellence!

you have posted some links on youtube and a personality test to back up your observations of my ignorance.

anybody interested can make up their minds for themselves based on the evidence provided and our conduct in this discussion.

[warmblanket]

Have a look at the documentary on googlevideos, for project MK ultra, the most controversial attempt to explore the possibilities of mind control by American government; I'd agree hypnosis, most definitely is defined by psychological means to manipulate perception and with the tool of media, propoganda propels its force to penetrate into one's personality - emotions are contagious, and essentially emotional hijacking through persistent psychological and emotional manipulation of one's perception, or framing one's reality is possible
Many scientific studies, demonstrate the power of the emotional brain to absorb information we did not consciously process, our rational conscious mind can tolerate but 6 items at any given time before it is short circuted. The emotional brain is more complex and more highly sophisticated system, does things without us realizing, thats why emotions are contagious, that is why hypnosis or psychological manipulation is possible, belief in such leads victims to be controlled unwittingly by corrupted ppl.
Unfortunately, we live in a world were this wonderful knowledge about the human condition, is manipulated by people who want to manipulate the world into their own twisted logic on things, which is sad
Conditioning one through NLP tactics combined with global communication via internet - has spawned a new method of propoganda, mind control and hypnosis
Who knows maybe the next American expedition post scandals of MK ultra, is "Project Internet" we can blame the mastermind Bill Gates for that, who knows - speculation is always a healthy activity

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I came here to share knowledge from which persons could research and come to their own conclusions. That's how I do my learning, I don't learn from just reading things.

Have you even read & understood the The papers you present as evidence, these are some quotes from The Nature of Hypnosis from the British Psychological Society link who I notice Kevin Wagstaff is on the board, he at the forefront of the Hypnosis Does Not Exist theory.. here's what your papers say:

Quote: The concept of the ‘hypnotic trance’
Traditionally, it has been considered that the hypnotic induction places the subject in a special altered state of consciousness or ‘trance’, one property of which is enhanced responsiveness to suggestions.
Modern research has called into question the validity of this way of thinking about hypnosis.

Quote: Hypnosis and will
Hypnotic procedures are not in themselves able to cause people to commit acts against their will.
However, the demands of the context in which the procedures take place may exert pressure on the subject to comply with the hypnotist’s instructions.
It follows that any allegation that hypnosis caused a person to engage in activities against his or her will must be assessed from a careful consideration of non-hypnotic influences present in the context (Heap, 1995a; Hoëncamp, 1989; Orne, 1972).

Quote: Hypnosis and Memory
In summary, there is no strong evidence that the introduction of hypnotic procedures accurately
enhances the memory of a witness to a crime. Instead, hypnosis may result in false memories and
misplaced confidence in recall. Consequently, if hypnosis is used at all for investigative purposes, any evidence elicited should be treated with the utmost caution.

I'm sorry but this paper your presented confirms HYPNOSIS DOES NOT EXIST

You can not present evidence because hypnosis does not exist. No one has ever been hypnotised in the history of the earth. FACT. The whole thing began by and ecentric quack Franz Mesmer and his magnets. FACT.

I can't change a persons belief, they may choose ignorant bliss, but only when they are offered an alternative are they able to make a decision.

for those interested in facts. the video is very funny as well as educational.

[SWM]

yes, i have read the papers i presented as evidence.

Traditionally, it has been considered that the hypnotic induction places the subject in a special altered state of consciousness or ‘trance’, one property of which is enhanced responsiveness to suggestions.
Modern research has called into question the validity of this way of thinking about hypnosis.

this is true. and it is proof that "hypnosis exists" as the utilisation of natural neruropsychophysiological processes. a hypnotic induction is not necessasry for hypnosis as stated it was previously presumed that a hypnotic induction was necessary. however even anton mesmer never performed an induction, so such theories where never on a solid rational basis. Hypnoidal states occur naturally without any induction. see my previously cited article Sidis, 1909. suggestions can be given to patients and they may act upon them without any formal induction. however the induction faciliates the trance state and the state of trance reduces the involvement of the conscious and critical mind of the patient. suggestions are more likely to be acted on if the conscious mind of the patient is concentrated and absorbed in something else.

Quote: Hypnosis and will
Hypnotic procedures are not in themselves able to cause people to commit acts against their will.
However, the demands of the context in which the procedures take place may exert pressure on the subject to comply with the hypnotist’s instructions.
It follows that any allegation that hypnosis caused a person to engage in activities against his or her will must be assessed from a careful consideration of non-hypnotic influences present in the context (Heap, 1995a; Hoëncamp, 1989; Orne, 1972).

i am not sure why you post this as proof that hypnosis does not exist. again the observations here are true and explain the error of a long held misconception about hypnosis. hypnosis cannot make people do things against there will. this is a misconception that people have about hypnosis. people tend to think that hypnosis will make them do things against there will this misconception comes from stage hypnosis. which is not true hypnosis. hypnosis does not make people do things against there will. why is that evidence that it does not exist?

Quote: Hypnosis and Memory
In summary, there is no strong evidence that the introduction of hypnotic procedures accurately
enhances the memory of a witness to a crime. Instead, hypnosis may result in false memories and
misplaced confidence in recall. Consequently, if hypnosis is used at all for investigative purposes, any evidence elicited should be treated with the utmost caution.

again why you have posted this as evidence for the non-existence of hypnosis has no rational basis. the quote is again pointing out FACTS about HYPNOSIS. the quote is explaining that WHEN USING HYPNOSIS do not rely on the memory of events because those memories are unreliable. why do you think this is evidence that hypnosis does not exist.

anybody that is properly trained and qualified in hypnosis will know this. this is not evidence that hypnosis does not exist, it is evidence that hypnosis is being thoroughly investigated and the problems, precautions and contra-indications are being explored and documented, along with the postive clincial applications and outcomes.

[SWM]

have you ever tried to hypnotize somebody it is actually very, very easy, suprisingly so.

in fact as you become skilled at hypnotising people you notice how people slip into trance all the time. people are constantly going into trance... wihtout any interference from me.

the mind becomes attached to some thought or idea and they drift off. then come back when that line of imagining has finished. trance is a very pleasant experience. the alpha state associated with light levels of trance is very pleasant and comfotable mental state.

even animals, cats and dogs slip into trance easily. and sit there staring peacfully into space. and as you become familiary with the state of trance you notice how you slip in and out of trance all day long.

 i wonder what your thoughts are about trance. what about meditation. do you believe in meditation? do you believe in trance?

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I think it's interesting we can both read the same paragraph of text and interpret the meaning so opposite.
It's easy to hypnotise a person of course, because they are complying with what is expected of them. Anything else would be too uncomfortable. This is social compliance. They're in effect pretending.
I don't believe in hypnotic trance, it's not possible.
Most people lead very busy and very lonely lives. Taking time out to concentrate on 'you' weather with a hypnotist, meditation, counselling etc.. will be very therapeautic as is painting or swimming. The positive effects are gained from relaxing and not exclusive to hypnosis/meditation/reiki is the latest nonsense fad. I do believe human contact is beneficial to a persons health so human touch be it nonsense reflexology or a visit to the hairdressers or massage will contribute to a persons sense of well being.

Warmblanket it's very interesting and I agree largely with what you say. However I don't believe in NLP that is a lot of nonsense too. But what you say about programming people is very interesting. The internet I find invaluable though I love it. I think google are mightier than the chinese government.
Anyway this video is excellent is demonstrating how the masses are very easily manipulated.

The Century of Self - The Happiness Machine

[NataEames]

captcha,

I have meditated for 8 years now, experimented with sleep, trance and self-hypnosys through numerous ways and drugs and what not.

If you were gonna be telling me that god doesn't exist, thats fine, i dont believe in god either.

But, sweetie, for nearly a decade I've been practicing self-hypnosys, you're gonna have to give me a little more than a parlor trick to prove your stubborn point.

[gone]

NataEames
Some people have practised bending spoons with their minds for almost a decade too. Your point?

[warmblanket]

Yep, thats the video, very informative, but there are other ones, there was a case with a lady who had postpartum depression, this doctor in new york i think, took her in and experimented on her, removed her identity completely, she never recovered the original self - cant find the video account documentary she gave...The psychiatrist that worked on this woman was Ewen Cameron, he used recorded messages and sounds repeated to destroy peoples thinking patterns and replace their thinking patterns with new ones - indoctrinating them
But this little briefing is interesting re: "Project Paperclip" - go to youtube: CIA Mind Control Operation MK-ULTRA  the add on address to youtube address is:  
w w w . y o u t u b e . c o m /watch?v=i46RI2twVao
Some scientists say that there is such a thing as "trance",  there are theories that our brain automatically does it, you know when u 'stare' for a few seconds that is what "trance" is, in its realist defition,  or there are some theories that the flickering of a tv/computer screen induce this trance making people susceptible to brainwashing--- but its not like the farcical old horror movies if thats ur point of reference for "hypnotic trance"... our bodies are made like that, and its also not a delusion of a conspiracy theorist, mythical as it may seem when one is distant from such circumstances, it is quite possible given the right conditions included isolation and pumping someone with information, to break their thought patterns, to respond to new patterns pumped in, using anchoring words to destroy original thought patterns and generate new ones, like Ewen Cameron, people are truly evil
 

[precious_fate]

I've heard from my psychology teacher and some textbooks of psychology that I've come across that stated by psychologists that hypnosis does not exist if one' does not believe in it, it only works for people who is usually open-minded; it works if the individuals are open and responsive to suggestions when made by hypnotherapist.

[SWM]

I think it's interesting we can both read the same paragraph of text and interpret the meaning so opposite.

it is called cognitive bias.  people have a tendency to look for information that supports their belief and disregard information that contradicts their belief. that is why you looked for anything in that BPS paper that would confirm your belief and you disregarded everything else.

It's easy to hypnotise a person of course, because they are complying with what is expected of them. Anything else would be too uncomfortable. This is social compliance. They're in effect pretending.

this was a theory of hypnosis presented in the early part of the 20th century. it was a psychoanalytic theory of hypnosis (i have the references at home) but it is outdated now. modern theories recognise this is not what is happening in hypnosis.  James Braid was not too far off the mark with his "peculiar physiological state of the brain and spinal chord" I could find you the references if you are interested?

I don't believe in hypnotic trance, it's not possible.

trance is trance.  trance is a naturally occurring phenomena. we do it all the time.  "hypnotic trance"  is the same natural trance state, the same as the meditative trance state. it is identifiable by a certain frequency of brainwave activity. in "hypnotic trance" the patient has allowed the hypnotist to guide them into trance.  the hypnotist is trained to recognise that state, use that state, to facilitate that state in himself and others and to help people achieve that state for themselves.

here is a study that compares Buddhist meditation with the hypnotic state. The Science of Meditation and the State of Hypnosis

Taking time out to concentrate on 'you' weather with a hypnotist, meditation, counselling etc.. will be very therapeautic as is painting or swimming. The positive effects are gained from relaxing and not exclusive to hypnosis/meditation/reiki... I do believe human contact is beneficial to a persons health so human touch be it ... reflexology or a visit to the hairdressers or massage will contribute to a persons sense of well being.

very true.

[warmblanket]

Things you must consider:
1) how old is the book?
2) what is the moral pendulum of your psychology teacher? (are they ultra-psychology without consideration of biological factors?)
3) Read about the biology of brain functioning
4) i think your fundamental problem is, your definition of hypnosis (a negative reception; old-horror movie notion; etc like i said before)

Firstly, in recent times, there is a growing acceptance of theory of the brain's plasticity - our physical brain is capable of altering shape, so to say in layman's terms, MRI scans were developed but limited to see the physical aspects of the brain; but SPECT scans illustrate like the energy levels in the brain and how they work, and are ignited, basically if u overdo an activity those parts of the brain become "hotspots" and are in "overdrive"
You can also change your brain, people can heal from mental illness by nutritional factors - this theory is also connected to the concept of the brain's plasticity
If you have done the chemistry experiment where u heat mentals over a bunsen burner, it will emit a specific colour of light, green, orange, red (like fireworks), according to the specific metal, as its energy levels rise it gets excitied as it moves to higher levels, then when it drops suddenly - it emits a light - if u think of ur brain activity a little like this, it might help (sorry explained experiment in laymans terms without electrons, atoms etc. in case dificult to understand)

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There is a saying from the Royal Society 'Nullius in verba' latin for  'Take nobodies word for it'.

These were the scientist that still impact upon our everyday lives today. Robert Boyle, Christopher Wren and Sir Isaac Newton etc.. the greatest minds. My point being their moto was 'Don't take any ones word for it' but research, experiment and observe and conclude upon satisfying the forementioned. THEY DIDN'T LEARN FROM READING

You keep presenting text, latest from a researcher in hypnotherapy which is a lot of words and nonspeak. It says absolutely nothing. And wouldn't she be biased as she believes, works and makes money through hypnosis?

I do my learning from research, experiements and observations and I only then I reach my conclusion. Which is why I've presented the history (how can anyone believe hypnosis when they know it began with Franz Mesmer??? ) I also presented observations in the videos, even hypnotist say hypnosis doesn't exist. It really does defy common sense when all considered. I have a friend currently reading Greg Braden someone or (alternative therapies) and she uses another friends toilet becasue she believes from his books her energies are being sucked away down the toilet. That is a book available to buy.. It doesn't mean it's true.. You can not rely upon books for your learning. There is no way to hypnotise a person, like there is no way energies are sucked away down the toilet.
No I know people are passive and like an audience in the theatre would rather remain seated and entertained by a fairy notion, but I offer a backstage pass to what's really going on behind the scenes, but few want to know, prefering instead the illusion.



I agree warmblanket. If the teacher has learned her topic from books, then they are just passing on that learned knowledge weather it be right or wrong. I've mentioned Magicians becasuse they know the score basically, where teachers and practicioners don't. Sadly.

I once had mail from an enquirining hypnotist in the US he was Chuck something or other. He send me videos of his show and said 'Watch that guy, he's really in a deap trance, so much so he nearly fell of his chair' I said watch your video again and explained the guy was an exhibitionist and wanted all the attention. This was clear because minutes earlier he had dramatized in extreme the suggestion, so people would look at him.  Some people are just like that. Chuck didn't know this and really believed the kids were hypnotised and came back to me time and again curious to understand until the penny dropped and realisation descended on what was so obvious. It takes time but it something when you understand.

[SWM]

you critcize learning from books and say you do your research by experiments and observations and then in the next sentence you refer to Anton Mesmer did you learn about him from a book or did you observe him directly? (some 200 odd years ago)

how do you carry out research and experiments in hypnosis when you are not a practicing hypnotist?

You keep presenting text, latest from a researcher in hypnotherapy which is a lot of words and nonspeak. It says absolutely nothing. And wouldn't she be biased as she believes, works and makes money through hypnosis?

lots of words and non-speak? it is an academic article that was published in a scientific journal. if you do not understand it perhaps you should read more scientific articles and improve your comprehension of this kind of material instead of watching youtube clips for your education.

most researchers do the research in the field they study in, do they not?

who would be better qualified to do research and experiments in hypnosis than a hypnotherapist? what do you think?
are you better qualified to do research into hypnosis? lets ask the one who has never been in a trance what is it like to go into a trance.


would it be more acceptable to you if we got a magician to conjure us some evidence out of a top hat? maybe you could select the correct piece of evidence from a pack of playing cards? we could film it and post it on youtube maybe that would be less difficult for you to understand

[Enigma]

Sometimes this entire forum seems like a homage to confirmation bias.

[gone]

hehe, yes :-)

The word 'Scentific' is banted around a lot. Gregg Braden uses it and he's a nutter trying to head a cult. L Ron Hubbard used it 'Scientology' shampoo's and facecreams use it to give credence to crap..

My friend believes she could rid herslef of cancer with 'thought' because the 'alternative' healing & therapy books she reads talk of Quantum Physics. She's completely lost the plot from nonsense alternative self help books that use 'scientific' words. Scientific mean nothing except to people in marketing and advertising, to make gullible people buy things.

I'm sorry you're missing out on a whole area of psychology because you refuse to investigate for yourself.

A hypnotist to research hypnosis, absolutely not. What are independent bodies for. That's like Pfizer researching depression, which they do, (result PHQ-9 questionaire) then supply the medication. Win win...

I've learned a lot from youtube, including how to play the ukulele. There is a lot of educational material on youtube.

The penny will drop one day.

[pert -5]

Scientific mean nothing except to people in marketing and advertising, to make gullible people buy things.

OK.  So if by my own acumen I devise an experiment, carry it out to conclusion, record accurate and intelligible data, provide said data to a group of my peers so that they can perform the exact same experiment under the exact same conditions, and if they come back with the same conclusion, could that be considered scientific?  What has that to do with marketing and advertising? 

Are you jaded?

[SWM]

oh dear. the penny has just dropped for me.

I think you have some valid points and I have enjoyed this discussion. people will use common sense to arrive at their own conclusions about this subject.
 
i am sure you have some really interesting ideas to share, I will look forward to reading them.

welcome to the forum it's nice to have you on board.

[gone]

What you describe pert-5 is a 'scientific method'...

In advertising for example bio yoghurts use 'scientific' language to make it sound proven and good for you, does anyone buying know or care what 'l'casea immunitas' is or 'biffidus regularus?' it sells shit basically. Face creams with SPF and antioxidents is only 'sun protection factor' (may as well use sun lotion) and antioxidnets is vitamin C (eat an orange)..

Do you understand now? Science is a word used a lot in alternative therapies too, which are hardly proven. Hypnosis for one, which is the topic here.

[gone]

Glad to be of help SWM, anytime!

hehe.. thanks for the discussion and the welcome is appreciated.

[pert -5]

What you describe pert-5 is a 'scientific method'...

In advertising for example bio yoghurts use 'scientific' language to make it sound proven and good for you, does anyone buying know or care what 'l'casea immunitas' is or 'biffidus regularus?' it sells shit basically. Face creams with SPF and antioxidents is only 'sun protection factor' (may as well use sun lotion) and antioxidnets is vitamin C (eat an orange)..

Yeah, I get ya.  Just like how they use the word YOGA to sell an over-glorified form of a simple activity which is literally "stretching."

[SWM]

Glad to be of help SWM, anytime!

you were no help to me but the welcome still stands.

[mad]

damn scientists they cost me a fortune calling my car a mercedes.

[NataEames]

captcha, has anyone ever actually BENT THE SPOON with their minds?

Do you really think i was ignorant enough to sit on my ass for 8 years contemplating my nostrils?

I've kept myself awake for days at a time, connected to an EEG and whatnot, ive experimented with my dreams so much, i know most of the time what ill dream of depending on what im going through in real life.

I have uncovered a lot about my past through self hypnosys.

Your conscious is only a small percentage of your mind. What you think you know is only a small percentage of what you actually know!

Try meditating on that thought for a while, maybe you'll understand