Author Topic: OMG Massive Realisation - Autism Traits & Copying.  (Read 1087 times)

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OMG Massive Realisation - Autism Traits & Copying.
« on: January 24, 2011, 01:31:38 AM »
Last night I posted this
http://psychology-forum.com/general-psychology-forum/don%27t-know-why-this-would-irritate-me-so-much/?topicseen

It's basically me going on and on about someone I knew who copied everything from clothes to  lifestyles.

I have just been researching something and come across a quote that someone with Aspergers Syndrome said to me many years ago, he said it was his quote. (Aspergers for those who don't know is on the autistic spectrum, however most people wont recognise this in others, just think them a bit odd or excentric). Now I knew this person and everything he did he copied and passed of as his own, from art to clothes, to quotes. Upon seeing that quote on someones website he read the books of, I'm suddenly reminded that he had autism and copied everything. My post above that I wrote last night was about someone I  knew who copied everything. The thing is she has an autistic child.
So of couse that's a massive revelation, I've identified 2 people who copy from other people in extreme (like they have no originality, no creativity or call it what you will), 1 of which has autism, the other of which give birth to an autistic child.

Is there a link between copying behaviours and autism? either directly or hereditary?

If anyone can contribute more info or research please do as I check out some more stuff & have a think..

« Last Edit: January 24, 2011, 02:31:17 AM by psycho-mother »

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Re: OMG Massive Realisation - Autism Traits & Copying.
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2011, 05:32:44 PM »
I did a little research and it seems persons with Aspergers & Autism lack imaginative creativity. Report here for anyone interested: http://autismresearchcentre.com/docs/papers/1999_Craig_BC.pdf

So that explains why they copy everything, from sentences to lifestyles, wallpaper, tricks, sytles, etc.. They don't have the ability to create these things by themselves, but it's annoying as they claim credit for copying from others but pretend the idea their own, which makes them liars.

But the revelation was if I can identify the exact same behaviours in a person with autism and a person who goes on to have an autistic child, surely it's hereditary, but not just that, it's identifiable.
The copying is in extreme as in my previous post, but is the cherry on the cake because previously I'd identified similarities in these people, but never thought about her autistic child.  Other things they shared in common was having little social awarness, which at times made me feel awkward..  They both had no opinions but would quickly take on the opinions of others.
They would only ever refer to the superficial. For example she would obsess over false nails and he would obsess over hand stitching. They could't see beyond what was visible. Yet they both had hidden agenda's themselves. Which is another triat of autism, in the above paper it says rather than 'create' they demonstated higher methods of manipulation.

So to conclude I am wondering if it's possible to identy those at high risk of having autistic children though observation of their behaviour.



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Re: OMG Massive Realisation - Autism Traits & Copying.
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2011, 06:16:15 PM »
Ummm..... yeah.  Go back and do more research.  Your logic and conclusion are flawed, incomplete, and off base.  Your two encounters and minimum reads do not even come close to representing autism, or giving you the ability to make such a blanket statement, as the functioning ability of people with ASD varies greatly, depending upon where they lie on the spectrum.  You seem to have an interest.  Its funny you say they frustrate you, you most likely frustrate them.  They may lack social awareness but many have such a higher level of proven genius thinking and are so very logical and intellegent  that a simple irrational statement such as yours is frustrating to them.  People with autism may share similar traits that make them easy to identify, (especially by those who know how to identify it) but how they manifest varies just about as widely as the character traits of anyone else.  Would you say Einstein was unimaginative and uncreative and a copy cat who passed off others' ideas as his own?  How about Bill Gates, Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Edison, Dan Akroyd, Temple Grandin, Sotashi Tajiri (creator of Pokeman) and the list goes on and on of the top world famous poets, authors, actors, musicians, scientists, ect....you get the picture.  Please, do not stop your exploration with a simple minded post... take the time to really investigate your pondering.... it will amaze you!

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Re: OMG Massive Realisation - Autism Traits & Copying.
« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2011, 10:06:43 PM »
Thank you for that. I wrote that some time ago it was like a eurika moment which I wrote to explore further. I know and didn't intend to represent 'autism' it's way too large for me to contemplate, what I wrote about was copy behaviours I observed both directly and hereditary in autism. I recently read there was a direct link between genius mathematicians and autism. I know they have many skills which I didn't list because my post wasn't about exploring their skills. I don't know enough 'autistic' people to research further but I got a reply from an academic in autistic research who said currently 'copying behaviours in autism aren't currenly being researched' bla bla bla...
So it's at a dead end for now. As for the people you list, well it's well known Bill Gates 'allegedely' stole the idea of windows.. I'm not sure of the other people I don't know enough about them, but 'creative' people like poets arn't usually on the autistic scale because they're creative, they think imaginatively not logically.
I'm very interesting in exploring 'imagination' at the moment.. I would like to know if some people don't have any 'imagination'. If there's anything you can comment on that topic, I'd be interested to hear. Thanks.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 10:08:30 PM by psycho-mother »

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Re: OMG Massive Realisation - Autism Traits & Copying.
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2011, 06:45:57 AM »
The reason copying behaviors in autism is not being researched is there is not a strong enough connective path between the two.  Your observation is anecdotal.

However, you are correct in that research is showing that there may be a strong connection to it being hereditary, but even that is not yet conclusive.  There is still too many unknowns.

What sets most people on the spectrum apart is their orientation and filters to the world.  Neurotypical people are more socially oriented, while ASD people are more logically orientated.  However, logic and imagination are not exclusive of each other.

All people use imagination, its how we problem solve.  For example, logical mathematicians and scientists use their imagination when building their theories using visuals in their brains.  In reality, almost ALL people copy ideas and build upon them (which requires imagination).  We are not taught until PHD level in our education to create original works.  Until then, we use the ideas and thoughts of others and build upon them.  We pass it off as normal to do so.   

The idea that poets are not autistic is yet another misnomer.  Please be careful with blanket stereotypes, especially false ones.  It has no credibility and why I implore you to explore the subject prior to making innacurate judgments as fact. 

There is a book called The Genesis of Artistic Creativity: Asperger’s Syndrome and the Arts, the below passage is often quoted:

    "Persons with the syndrome are often workaholics, highly persistent, content with their own company and solitary artistic occupations; they focus on detail with massive curiosity and total immersion; they are novelty-seekers in terms of their art, with massive imagination in their specialised spheres. They are also far less influenced by previous or contemporary artists in their work than are ‘neurotypicals’. It appears that the autistic artist, because of his or her rather diffuse identity and diffuse psychological boundaries, has the capacity to do what the artist George Bruce described as being necessary for art: ‘One must not just depict the objects, one must penetrate them, and one must oneself become the object’.”


I am also willing to bet you know and encounter more autistic people then you think.  One in 110 have the syndrome, most of which are male.

I started to list names of today's most prominent and brilliant Pulitzer prize winners, poets, songwriters, artists, producers who are indeed autistic, but as the list is so long, I encourage you to google it, if for nothing more than the shock value of how many there really are. 

Finally, I will leave you with my own anecdotal contrary observation.  My oldest child, my 11 year old son, has autism (the only other family member with autism is my husband's cousin.)   My "unimaginative uncreative" autistic child recently competed in the district forensic and drama competition in the category of creative storytelling.  What that means to you as a layman: people competing in this category are given three random aspects: a character, a situation, and a scene location.  They then have 30 minutes to use their imagination and create an impromptu one man 10 minute play and then act it out themselves.  It is impossible to "copy".   He placed fourth in the entire district....  A co-worker's son just won an art scholarship, he too is autistic.


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Re: OMG Massive Realisation - Autism Traits & Copying.
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2011, 01:31:01 PM »
Interesting & thanks again. I do promote awareness of ASD because not only do I observe the behavours of ASD people I also observe the behavours of those who encounter this type and their reaction is not very good. For example because of the royal wedding our TV's (in the UK) have been aflush with marriage clips, especially from a disasterous episode of a show called Don't Tell The Bride. The groom did the most terrible things, headed to vegas, didn't invite his siter or brother-in-law to the wedding etc.. The bride and her family were heartbroken & he ruined the wedding. There are many online forums labelling this guy an idiot for what he did, but it was clear to me with little tell tale signs that he has slight ASD, although no one would know so instead label him a selfish pig, an idiot and more. But he genuinely wouldn't have realised that not inviting those closest would cause such emotional distress. Because I believe they don't undestand as well the emotions of others. I promote the awareness as a 'difference' not as a disability. They probably make up the majority so who's to say what's 'normal'.. it's just a difference of filtering the world as you say.
The academic research paper I gave a link to by S Cohen was about Imagination in ASD.. And concluded ASD people have less imagination than those without it, but they had better manipulation skills which worked dust as well but 'differently' to get a task done. Which is why I think if they lack 'imagination' they will copy. I'm glad your son is doing well and I love stories so I love that story you told. However there are only suppose to be 7 stories in the whole world, if a person knows this it's not hard to copy one and tailor it.
I do as much research as I can and one mother of an autistic son said 'ASD arn't suppose to have imagination or creativity but my ASD son planted a seed in a pot with soil, which proves he's got imagination & creativity'... I don't quite understand the logic behind that. I don't think that action requires imagination or creativity. Art too does not require imagination or creativity - my sister is a brilliant artist she can reproduce anything by pencil drawing but that's where it ends, she couldn't 'design' or create anything and has no imagination, but she's still considered an 'artist'.
Not many people get to PHD level. I think I'm an 'independant thinker' because I didn't go to school much, education is capped and twisted and much of what is in the text book is wrong.. Better to stay in bed & think because those who went to school have lost the ability.

 

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