Psychology as a varible

[pljames]

Philosophy is a variable, not understood as one meaning. Psychology is the same. As synonyms explain many ways to understand words, so do all the disciplines. Psychology as philosophy has many meanings of understanding. The brain/mind has multiple process,s to make it work. In mental health facilities many counselors  have different ideas on how to help a patient with their problem. As a saying "to many cooks spoil the broth".

Understanding others problems takes patience's and education plus experience. But there again common sense logic and rational reasoning all have variables. The central issue being the patient and their resolve to help themselves.  I love philosophy and psychology. I feel in both of these disciplines the word "to understand" is paramount to the disciples. They are the human factor toward understanding. Thoughts please. pljames

[sakoz]

[quote author=pljames link=topic=2324.msg17092#msg17092 date=1319464824. In mental health facilities many counselors  have different ideas on how to help a patient with their problem.
First the counselors have to find their own happiness and well being and mental health; notice what/how they do it then teach clients to do the same. That will be the 'same' method/procedure for them all.    (Sydney Banks idea)

pljames; you used the word "patient", that word implies their 'sick'. I prefer 'client',that implies they seek service.  If their malfunctioning by way of not understanding how they are using or misusing  their 'thinking process'. They want to be 'taught' not 'fixed'. ( Clients are not "broken").

[pljames]

Well said. My apology, Client instead of patient. Can the mind be confused or misunderstood and the client don't understand they might have a problem? Maybe the word problem is a variable with synonyms.As with the words client or patient? Both are seeking answers to their problem. pljames

[sakoz]

Many therapists have different ideas on how to help..... Yes; if they recognized the common denominator of cause, they would then tutor the clients the same way about the generic cause.

pljames, you shared your experience of insight/understanding a few months ago. Would you say that that 'potential' for insight/understanding that 'woke' you up, was already in you and therefore is in everyone?  By experiencing what was already in you, that  information will encourage the readers to acknowledge that they too can experience such insight/understanding.

"Can the mind be confused.....?" you ask.  The brain creates/produces false thoughts as easily as true ones without recognizing the difference. That might be a source of confusion. (lol)

[pljames]

Many therapists have different ideas on how to help..... Yes; if they recognized the common denominator of cause, they would then tutor the clients the same way about the generic cause.

pljames, you shared your experience of insight/understanding a few months ago. Would you say that that 'potential' for insight/understanding that 'woke' you up, was already in you and therefore is in everyone?  By experiencing what was already in you, that  information will encourage the readers to acknowledge that they too can experience such insight/understanding.

"Can the mind be confused.....?" you ask.  The brain creates/produces false thoughts as easily as true ones without recognizing the difference. That might be a source of confusion. (lol)

The potential that woke me up was probably there in the first place. If the mind babbles why? Do I control my brain or vice versa? pljames

[sakoz]

pljames; Short reply on your part. "The potential that woke me up was probably there in the first place." I was hoping you would elaborate on that "realization".
"If the mind babbles why?" I would distinguish between "mind" and "brain". The brain produces false thoughts as easily as true ones, so babbling is not surprising, if the brain does not differentiate true and false thoughts. It also produces 'glossolalia', it's not common but the brain can do it. It may be up to the mind to differentiate true and false thoughts, (like an inspector).
"Do I control my brain or vice versa?" Which 'I' do you mean? There are two. Your real I was present at birth, and seemingly 'receded' when your socially constructed 'I' 'ego' took over. That artificial 'I' is made of language, beliefs , etc. Your real I 'woke up' recently, or revealed itself. Now that it did, you notice the difference when I-ego 'operates/functions'?
Do the people around you notice a difference in you? Do you find many don't know what you mean by "waking up" or "realization"/

[pljames]

Do the people around you notice a difference in you? Do you find many don't know what you mean by "waking up" or "realization" Quote/ Yes to the first question, no to the second. I emphasize mind and not brain. I believe I am motivated by my history and my experiences in my life plus my knowledge. It's hard for a person to understand and realize they were programmed by there "ego".

The ego is a mystery to them. pljames

[sakoz]

I asked; "Do you find many don't know what you mean by 'waking up' or 'realization' ? You answer 'no', meaning they 'do' know. Then you wrote; "it's hard for,a person to understand and realize they were programmed by their ego". I'm a bit confused.  Do you mean they understand it 'happened' to you but its hard for them to understand and realize the same for themselves?

"Ego" is mystery?  My understanding is 'ego' is who you think you are; ego itself is a 'program'. If you were told as a child; "Your a good boy or a bad boy." You believed that judgement of others and incorporated it into you self-concept; ego.

[pljames]

Sokoz
You said" Do you mean they understand it 'happened' to you but its hard for them to understand and realize the same for themselves? Reply. Exactly. How can one feel/understand your pain unless they suffer it as well? pl

[sakoz]

pljames; Metaphors/Analogies as 'approximations' only.
Having experienced 'ego transcendence'; would you agree that the analogy of the genie going in and out of the bottle would be helpful for those who have not 'transcended' their ego yet to understand what we are talking about?

Another analogy; When your walking in the woods, you don't see the 'forest' for the trees, but if you fly overhead in a plane, you see the whole forest. The perspective from IN the 'forest' is not the same perspective as when OUT of the forest.

[pljames]

would you agree that the analogy of the genie going in and out of the bottle would be helpful for those who have not 'transcened' their ego yet to understand what we are talking about?/

Thats one way but they might not understand metaphysics (spirit and stuff). Ego is the false me/ understanding that ego is a I/Me now is me not my ego. The key word here is "understanding from them". pl

[sakoz]

I consider "understanding" as a perspective. There's levels of understanding as there are perspectives.
'Exiting' ego is not necessarily about metaphysics/spirit; such experience is the ultimate therapy. Problems 'dissolve' because it's ego that 'has' problems.
"Exiting ego", if we might call it that, occurs in different contexts, in metaphsyics, religion, therapy, I see it in the context of mental health, well being, ideal human functioning.