Quest for understanding psychology.

[pljames]

In my quest for understanding psychology (as I understand all the disciplines), I have found one factor that acknowledges psychology into perspective for me. To me the mind is a reflection of the world and all the knowledge as well. There is individual knowledge and world knowledge. Each knowledge has it's on philosophies with the world having billions of people with their own personal knowledge they understand. To me one factor stands out in relation too psychology or how people think what they think.

The word truth. It has many varibles called synonyms which each person believes individually. I for one have experienced delusion as reality. I now see why I did. yet as complex as this word is I also see the truth from my experience. The question is how do I persuade ( for a lack of words) those who have accepted a delusion as a truth, to question there belief that they too are (experiencing a delusion created by them as a truth)? pljames

[S. Earl Martin]

Ignore hard science

This is actually one of the questions posed by Sakoz. Although he phrased it differently. I don't see a way to convince someone they see or believe a delusion. On this sight over the years I have been posting here a number of people have posted here that obviously were delusional. When I tried to help them see they were experiencing delusional thinking? Most of the time they became defensive. A few actually listened to what I said and changed their thinking.

To change someone elses belief pattern or beliefs in general is usually difficult unless they have a desire to make the change themselves. If they are determined to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Words won't convince them, unless they want to believe what you are saying.

Yes truth is relative. An example is when someone has been wrongly convicted of a crime. A witness may give testimony that they believe is true and to them it is true. Even if they are mistaken. Science has proported a number different beliefs as the truth over the years. Later these are disproven by new evidence or theories. But at the time they were considered the "truth".

When someone is hallucinating for instance. Are we sure that the hallucination isn't real? Just because we can't see it? Maybe they are seeing another dimension we can't see? So truth is a term that is very difficult to pin down. It is constantly changing and varies from person or may change with time.

[SWM]

thanks for the notification. I don't take offense to such comments. the person who makes such comments is exposing the weakness in his own character not mine.

[pljames]

Martin,
 I understand where you are coming from. It seems the therapist listen's and picks up small bits of info as to why the client claims they are having delusion episodes. Eventually the client will devulge their true reasoning and the thearapist will tune into that and purpose a plan to help the patience? Thoughts please? pljames

Ignore hard science

This is actually one of the questions posed by Sakoz. Although he phrased it differently. I don't see a way to convince someone they see or believe a delusion. On this sight over the years I have been posting here a number of people have posted here that obviously were delusional. When I tried to help them see they were experiencing delusional thinking? Most of the time they became defensive. A few actually listened to what I said and changed their thinking.

To change someone elses belief pattern or beliefs in general is usually difficult unless they have a desire to make the change themselves. If they are determined to believe that the moon is made of cheese. Words won't convince them, unless they want to believe what you are saying.

Yes truth is relative. An example is when someone has been wrongly convicted of a crime. A witness may give testimony that they believe is true and to them it is true. Even if they are mistaken. Science has proported a number different beliefs as the truth over the years. Later these are disproven by new evidence or theories. But at the time they were considered the "truth".

When someone is hallucinating for instance. Are we sure that the hallucination isn't real? Just because we can't see it? Maybe they are seeing another dimension we can't see? So truth is a term that is very difficult to pin down. It is constantly changing and varies from person or may change with time.

[S. Earl Martin]

You get back what you give out. If you don't play nice and if you are mean? People will notice. It motivates them to action. Again you assume things not in evidence.

Plus you are a terrible liar.

[sakoz]

pljames" I like your inquries. We see written words here. Words  represent the thoughts of the writers. Thoughts are conveyed by language; whether written or spoken. Language is a "tool".
I use a cane, but i am not my came. We use 'thoughts' but we are not our thoughts. Yet many, many people "act like" they believe they are who they think they are. That's a 'mistake'; but it's 'built' into our language, so simply by using language , we automatically believe we are who we think we are, because we use language automatically. (It seems unavoidable)
pljames you recognized you are not your "ego", ego is 'thoughts', so ego is a subset IN our thought system. Then you also recognize all thoughts are 'artifacts'. (very liberating, right?)

[S. Earl Martin]

Sakoz: not liberating at all. You make statements that don't offer any methodology. Weather your statements are true they will only be useful if you conclud them with a way they can be used or applied to the specific question or concern.

Example: Someone says. I need to get my car fixed. I don't know whats wrong with it?

Your response is like. Your car is not really broken if you think it isn't broken. It is only broken because you believe it is.

In some ways because thoughts make up our self perception we are our thoughts. At least in part. There is a fine line between what we believe and what is actually true or real. Because we act on our beliefs as if they are true.

You say you use a cane? So do I. Are you someone who just believes you need a cane? Is it just your belief making you need the cane? Or do you really need the cane? All the statements you made are true to an extent, but they offer no solution to the question. Practical Application!!!

[pljames]

Thoughts to me is just a thought, until I give it meaning purpose and life, then belief becomes part of the created thought into a believed word. The word is no longer a thought but a reality in the word I created which now is believed.

I am my id. My ego is something I created out of my experiences. My second self that wants to control me because I gave it (my ego life &purpose). I became me out of my experiences good and bad. My life has changed and now I understand who I am and my purpose in this life. pljames

pljames" I like your inquries. We see written words here. Words  represent the thoughts of the writers. Thoughts are conveyed by language; whether written or spoken. Language is a "tool".
I use a cane, but i am not my came. We use 'thoughts' but we are not our thoughts. Yet many, many people "act like" they believe they are who they think they are. That's a 'mistake'; but it's 'built' into our language, so simply by using language , we automatically believe we are who we think we are, because we use language automatically. (It seems unavoidable)
pljames you recognized you are not your "ego", ego is 'thoughts', so ego is a subset IN our thought system. Then you also recognize all thoughts are 'artifacts'. (very liberating, right?)

[S. Earl Martin]

Excellent post pljames. That is very close to how I believe and it is a very good discription. It also is an excellent response to sakoz. 

[pljames]

Martin,
 Below your response's is a sentence in a foreign language. What does it say? pl

Excellent post pljames. That is very close to how I believe and it is a very good discription. It also is an excellent response to sakoz. 

pljames" I like your inquries. We see written words here. Words  represent the thoughts of the writers. Thoughts are conveyed by language; whether written or spoken. Language is a "tool".
I use a cane, but i am not my came. We use 'thoughts' but we are not our thoughts. Yet many, many people "act like" they believe they are who they think they are. That's a 'mistake'; but it's 'built' into our language, so simply by using language , we automatically believe we are who we think we are, because we use language automatically. (It seems unavoidable)
pljames you recognized you are not your "ego", ego is 'thoughts', so ego is a subset IN our thought system. Then you also recognize all thoughts are 'artifacts'. (very liberating, right?)

[pljames]

When we are born we are totally a input creature. All of our lifes we input something. I love words. I cannot see them in my mind but I can see them down on this screen materially.I feel I have created something. It has meaning. I can give the words life and I believe them because I (see) them. They say seeing is believing. Yet I also believe we can give our thoughts life by believing them as well. I have studied the mind for several years and still have no clue what it is.

All I can speculate is the mind is a camera with chip and large memory? You are correct we are bombarded by words all our life. When you get a chance call up the visual thearurus.com. The core word is in the center and the related words are around it. To me our mind works this way as well. And when the mind needs words it can pick any word and use it as a core word. Just a thought. Thoughts please. pl

 

Sakoz: not liberating at all. You make statements that don't offer any methodology. Weather your statements are true they will only be useful if you conclud them with a way they can be used or applied to the specific question or concern.

Example: Someone says. I need to get my car fixed. I don't know whats wrong with it?

Your response is like. Your car is not really broken if you think it isn't broken. It is only broken because you believe it is.

In some ways because thoughts make up our self perception we are our thoughts. At least in part. There is a fine line between what we believe and what is actually true or real. Because we act on our beliefs as if they are true.

You say you use a cane? So do I. Are you someone who just believes you need a cane? Is it just your belief making you need the cane? Or do you really need the cane? All the statements you made are true to an extent, but they offer no solution to the question. Practical Application!!!

[S. Earl Martin]

Gott ist unendlich

It is German. It says God is eternal or unending.
It was in response to someone else who put

Gott ist tot
Which translates as God is dead

When we are born we are totally a input creature. All of our lifes we input something.
This is a good observation.