sexuality confusion

[hamfarm]

I have a question. I'm a 19 year old male. For as long as I can remember I have always liked females or girls, but also for as long as i can remember i have had homosexual thoughts and dreams. I am not gay and have never had sex or done anything sexual to someone of the same sex. I'm not really confused I just don't know what it means. I was told growing up you know that males do this and females do that, males wear this and females wear that. But my mom also would let me and my brother dress up in her clothes sometimes, wear her shoes and just play dress up. I've never acted gay or done anything gay I always tried to be as masculine as i could. I remember once my mom even set me down and asked me if i was gay and told me it was ok and if i was she wouldnt have a problem with it. But I always thought to myself its wrong, its not right I shouldn't be that way. But all threw my child hood and still I continue to have these thoughts and dreams of homosexuality. Which I always fight. Ive never told anybody about this, I need answers 

[SWM]

it is very difficult to vote in such black and white terms. with all the advances of science we still know very little about the human mind and such things as sexuallity and personality are not definable in terms of genetics or social engineering (learning). what i am getting at is we just do not know for sure how such things evolve. of course, it is possible to condition the human mind into a set of beliefs or preferences such as you describe.
 

it seems that in making these enuiries you are asking of us here on the forum "am i normal to feel this way?". well the short answer is yes. it is quite normal to have sexual thoughts and desires for people of the same sex. i recenlty watched a documentary about a female who was asking this same question, she made a documentary about her enquiries and took her questions to professors and doctors and scientists to understand her sexual feelings towards other women.

one study made for this documentary anaylised the state and process of sexual arousal of men and women when exposed to graphic sexual images of both men and women

the evidence from this study suggested that both men and women are aroused by images of the same sex equally as much as images of the opposite sex.

one of the other points this documentary made was both genders change during the course of their lives sometimes more attracted to same sex sometimes more attracted to opposite sex. there is not pattern for this it is just a random change during the individuals life.

[SWM]

oh! and i forgot to mention.

welcome to the forum, i hope you find this a valuable resource in your quest for knowledge and undestanding and in your personal growth!

[Shell]

Very interseting read, Stan.  It makes me wonder if maybe we as humans are attracted to sex itself and not specificially the gender of the sexual object?

In answer to Hamfarm's question, I want to vote both.  In your case, I could see that being exposed and maybe even encouraged to the possibility of homosexuality (referring to your childhood experiences) could influence your thoughts on it.  I think planting an idea in someone's head can contribute to that person's decisions to explore the idea.  I don't think it is necessarily responsible for that person's actions or decisions, but it contributes to them.

I believe sexuality is ultimately a choice.  Your idea of sexuality can play a major factor in your decisions to choose male or female objects of sex.  If one idolizes sex itself as a means of gratification or personal satisfaction, then they will choose based on their physical desires.  However, if you feel sex is something sacred between you and someone you love or you and your wife, or whatever the case, then you will probably make your decisions based on your feelings towards the relationship.  Do I make sense?

This is just my opinion. 

[SWM]

thanks cecile you have clarified my thinking for me. i had not verbalised it to myself on those terms but yes i believe that as animals/organisms we are attracted to the sexual act and not the gender of the sexual partner. as evolved and cultured humans we have lost sight of our animalistic nature under the garments of our values and preferences.   

i was thinking also about how our sexual preferences and values may be partially self induced and partially introjected from our culture.

[cognitive]

stan, could you please give me some examples of homosexual or lesbian animals ?

[SWM]

i dont think animals have a sexual identity as such.   I sense that in asking for example of homosexual animals you are wanting of to validate the thoughts i put forward in my previous post. I cannot give an example of a homosexual animal but perhaps i can support my idea. 

I have in the part kept dogs. Dirt i had a jack russell bitch i them had a staff bull terrier dog. Both of them when aroused would attempt to copulate with anything from pillows, teddy bears, limbs of nearby humans. And any other animal of any species and sex.

[Shell]

LOL Stan, I have to tell you. When it comes to dogs, nothing is sexual about their humping.  It is all a dominance factor.  When they hump pillows or any belongings of the humans in the house, they are displaying dominance over you humans.  Same if done to the other dogs or animals in the house, despite sex.  This behavior can be controlled and stopped once you claim alpha male in the pack.  Put the dog in its place and remind them that they are your subordinates.  I don't mean physically put them in their place, but there are tons of great training that will help.

I paid $600 for training that got my tiny boston terrier (who used to growl at anyone who came close to me) to not even thinking of getting up on the couch unless I or my husband invited him up.  That's not all I learned, but I learned all about the pack mentality.

Sorry, I know it's completely off topic, but I had to share with you what I learned about dogs and their humping ways.  They only get aroused when they are ready to mate - and they'll do that if both are intact and the bitch is in heat.  Otherwise, it is strictly dominance. 

LOL  Ok, off to work -- I'm late. 

[Schizo]

I am, by any means of logic, not attracted to the same sex, I love woman.......  and hate them......   etc.  However, I have had a sexual experience with a male....   it is actually strange thinking back on it, I was very young as was the other person.  Basically it boils down to touching various parts of the other persons anatomy.... and something about a joystick....  = )   I was, at the same time, far to young to know what had taken place, and had little knowledge of sexuality.


I feel sexuality, one is reinforced by mass media... and two has grown into a perversion. 

 


 

[cognitive]

i dont think animals have a sexual identity as such.  

My idea was , when an animal is aroused and there are another same sex animal and an opposite sex one ,  which one it will choose to satisfy its instinct ?
Have you heard of an animal who , having the possibility to copulate with another of an opposite sex , chooses to do it with one of the same sex ?

[SWM]

LOL Stan, I have to tell you. When it comes to dogs, nothing is sexual about their humping.  It is all a dominance factor.  When they hump pillows or any belongings of the humans in the house, they are displaying dominance over you humans.  Same if done to the other dogs or animals in the house, despite sex.  This behavior can be controlled and stopped once you claim alpha male in the pack.  Put the dog in its place and remind them that they are your subordinates.  I don't mean physically put them in their place, but there are tons of great training that will help.

I paid $600 for training that got my tiny boston terrier (who used to growl at anyone who came close to me) to not even thinking of getting up on the couch unless I or my husband invited him up.  That's not all I learned, but I learned all about the pack mentality.

Sorry, I know it's completely off topic, but I had to share with you what I learned about dogs and their humping ways.  They only get aroused when they are ready to mate - and they'll do that if both are intact and the bitch is in heat.  Otherwise, it is strictly dominance. 

LOL  Ok, off to work -- I'm late. 

this does not seem right to me. also it does not fit with my observations of my animals.

it would make sense in a pack animals social heirarchy that the dominant male or female have the pick of sexual partners and first share of the food etc. that is what being the alpha male/ dominant female is about. however acheiving this status is not done by humping it is won through power, strength, agression and the fear of the subordinates. humping is not going to improve hiearchical status. now when the animal is humping a pillow or a teddy bear this becomes even more unnatural. why does the dog want dominace over an inanimate object which is no competition for food or sexual partners. alson the dogs have been displaying signs of sexual arousal before the act of pillow humping takes place.

My idea was , when an animal is aroused and there are another same sex animal and an opposite sex one ,  which one it will choose to satisfy its instinct ?
Have you heard of an animal who , having the possibility to copulate with another of an opposite sex , chooses to do it with one of the same sex ?

i understand. i think the point that cecile raised that i agreed with is that particulalry humans (i think it was me that brought animals into this) enjoy sexual act for pleasure regardless of the partner. 

....

i dont even know what i am talking about anymore. i think i have become confused about this sexuality thing. 

[cognitive]

my question was not necessary related to cecile 's post , i was trying to figure out  animal instincts toward the same sex partner. the question was not rethoric, i really do not know how they behave ,if  they ever engage in homosexual relations.
i have watched today some videos i found on the net with animals trying to have sex with anything was around them, a human, different species animals ( a tiger with a dog for instant )or even things .

[Shell]

Stan, I'll correct myself - I said that it is all about dominance, which is not always the case.  However, it is only sexual if it is done by a bitch in heat or the males around a bitch in heat.  Dogs do not have sexual desires like humans do - their sexual instincts are purely for procreation.  When the bitch is in heat, it's time to mate.  Simple as that.  They do not fall in love, nor do they enjoy sex for fun.

When it comes to mounting, there are various reasons besides sex during a heat cycle.  These can be medical such as hormonal imbalances, obsessive compulsion, anxiety, or even a skin irritation that simply needs to be scratched. In puppies, mounting can be a form of play.  For the most part, however, if all medical reasons are ruled out, the reason is mostly the establishment of dominance.

Dogs are pack animals period.  Just because they live with humans, doesn't mean they aren't part of a pack.  When humans own a dog, the human-dog family become a pack.  Some dogs are bred to be independent - such as livestock guardian dogs who need to be on their own to protect the cattle, sheep, or other livestock.  Otherwise, they are strongly pack-oriented.  They face separation anxiety issues when left home alone or tied up outside their entire lives.  Having a dog in your home makes your family a pack and therefore hiearchy must be established.

Pillows, teddy bears, and other belongings are an extension of the family member.  When the dog is unsure of his position in the pack, he may attempt to establish dominance in a subtle way -- by mounting your belongings with or without your presence.  Or if he is a very dominant dog, he will establish his position in agressive ways - mounting YOU, nipping, barking at you, etc. 

When mounting is occasional and done during play, then it may simply be an act of excitement.  However, if you are in another room and walk in on your dog humping your pillow, he is probably not sure of his position in the pack. 

The only time it is sexual is if it is a female in heat or a male around a female in heat -- even if that bitch is two blocks away. 

My American Eskimo is always trying to win dominance over me.  My husband is clearly alpha-male, I am alpha-female, and my Eskie claims beta-male (even if she is female) and tries to win alpha-female.  She does this by pressing me, trying to see what she can get away with.  I often have to reestablish alpha-female and remind her that she isn't it.  She backs down, but will occasionally hump my pillow when she thinks I'm not looking.  If we dogsit my brother's goofy lab, she establishes dominance over him and will mount him even if he's larger than her.  Lucky for her, he submits easily and acknowledges her as dominant over him.  She never mounts during playtime with me or my husband.

Here are some links that discuss mounting and mounting for dominance:
http://www.canineconcepts.co.uk/ccp51/cc/dog-behaviour/mounting-dog.shtml
http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&A=1498
http://www.freedogtraininginfo.com/131/dog-mounting-humping-offensive-sniffing/
http://www.dogsobediencetraining.com/dog_training/behavior/stop_dog_mounting_behavior.htm

BTW, I'm so sorry for hijacking this thread! 

[SWM]

ok. You convinced me. Humping is a dogs way of dominating and increasing hierarchical status.

This topic has brought me back some fond memories of my dogs.

Cecile.
What would be the meaning of my bitch humping the pillow on my bed when i was in the bed with my head on the pillow.

[Shell]

She's most likely trying to tell you she's the boss.  Do you baby her?  Is she a little dog?

I had a boston terrier who followed me everywhere.  He was my little baby.  He was on my lap if I sat, at my foot if I stood (or in my arms), and sleeping between my hubby and I on the bed.  My husband thought this dog was in love with me or saw me as his caretaker and protector.  Nope.  I learned later that he was like this because he felt he owned me - I belonged to him as his subordinate. 

He could not physically attain alpha-male.  A dog in a human's world will find being alpha-male very pressuring - they cannot handle it.  Too many things are out of their control.  However, if the humans are voluntarily taking positions that are lower than the dog (such as allowing the dog to jump on them or their children, letting them drag their owner everywhere when on leash, babying them, etc.) then the dog feels his only choice is to take the alpha position.

Since my husband was clearly alpha-male (his posture, walk, tone of voice, etc. displays authority) and I was clearly beta (I babied my dog and put him on a pedestal), Yota (my boston) found it his responsibility to take alpha-female.  However, he was very stressed in this position.  He growled at anyone who came near me, chased the vacuum when I was cleaning, acted very anxious and ansy.

Once I established dominance over him by ignoring his puppy eyes when he wanted me to pick him up, doing a soft, low growl at him and showing him to get off the furniture if he wasn't invited, and many more techniques, he became very calm.  His stress was relieved because he was placed in the proper position in the household.  He was where he belonged in heiarchy.  He didn't even bark when the doorbell rang because he understood that it was MY door, my house, I would protect my property.

Once the dog understands his place, he no longer feels the need to establish dominance.

Now... there are some dogs who are stubborn and will occasionally try to see if they can win the position over.  Some are very dominant.  My eskie, like I mentioned earlier, is very dominant.  If yours is doing this especially with your head on the pillow (aggressive), she needs to be put in her place.  If you want her on the bed with you, you have to invite her.  Otherwise, if she jumps up uninvited you've got to give her a low growl (nothing too aggressive, unless she is very stubborn) and tell her to get "off".  Show her how to get down and praise her once she's down.  Do not let her up until she has given up her quest to get on the bed.  This goes with any furniture.

This is the deal - to show them who's boss, you have to give them love on YOUR terms.  That means when they want it, they won't get it.  Whether it's food, pets, or sitting on the couch with you.  It seems harsh, but without rules they will only be confused and will act out.  They need to know which position they are in the pack.  Once they lose interest in what they want, that is the time to give it to them.  If you're walking and she's sleeping on the floor - don't go around her.  The pack leader doesn't weave around his pack members - they move out of his way.  If you have to walk into her (don't step on her, but you can still shove her with your foot), then do it.

[SWM]

She's most likely trying to tell you she's the boss.  Do you baby her?  Is she a little dog?

she is not with us anymore, she was put to sleep a couple of years ago. she was 18 years old and she was not well.

she was a small dog and she was very much the baby in the house. i lived with my mum, and the dog. there was only ever the three of us. she was given equal status by me but my mum wanted her to be "the good pet" i allowed her to sleep on my bed, encouraged her even. i allowed her to sit on the settee, especially when i had cold feet.    she always ate our food and would turn her nose at dog food.

she was very aggressive at times, never to me or mum, but to other people coming in to the house. she became ferocious, if a strange person came in. slightly more settled if it was our freinds or family. but she was very protective of us and our property. when she was out for a walk she would pull on her leash and attack everything, humans and animals alike.

[Shell]

Aww, am sorry to hear she is gone.  18 years is a long time, though, and it sounds like she had the life.  lol

Yep, she was definitely in the alpha position.  You guys let her rule the house.  My little dog was like that too and I babied him just the same. 

Her aggression while on the leash sounds very much like she was insecure with her responsibilities, her place in the pack.  Lots of pressure she was under - alpha's a big job. 

Many people don't realize that babying and pampering, enabling the dog can be the reason for its aggression or destructive tendencies.  Personally, if a person is happy with this in their dog, then it's fine.  As long as they don't blame the dog. LOL

[SWM]

i would love to figure out how these hierarchies fit into human schemas. surely we must have some psychological remnants from our evolutionary ancestors, which express themselves in our group behaviours.

do you know anything about human models of group hiearachies?

[norma]

Stan
Have to agree with Cecile,  Have had dogs and other animals since I was a child and humping is definitely to establish pack order.
Our dog looks at me at the Alpha and hubby as the Beta.   Even tho, I baby him, sometimes, he will still listen to me before hubby, but I am the one who took him through training etc.

As far as sexual in animals,  I honestly don't know but think  animals will when in season copulate with the first thing available. 

Just My opinion

[Shell]

Norma, thanks for bumping this up -- I didn't realize Stan posted like a week ago!

i would love to figure out how these hierarchies fit into human schemas. surely we must have some psychological remnants from our evolutionary ancestors, which express themselves in our group behaviours.

do you know anything about human models of group hiearachies?

Ooh Interesting!  I have no clue!  lol But it makes me very curious!  Something I'd like to research.

[DingBat]

stan, could you please give me some examples of homosexual or lesbian animals ?

Most vertebrates will couple off in same sex partnerships, usually for companionship.  If you're looking specifically for animals that engage in homosexual intercourse, there's still a long list. Dolphins (in fact, most whales), Bonobo apes, Big Horn sheep, Giraffes and Japanese Macaques happen to spring to mind.
 

[norma]

Dingbat,
That is really intersting.   I have never lived in the part of the country where big horn sheep are but makes sense to me. 

All animals, in my mind including humans, will respond when aroused to anything, to satisfy themselves  (think wet dreams).

[shadow]

Honestly,  I think most people feel attracted to someone of the same sex at some point in their lives. When there is someone you really admire/look up to/love, their gender doesn't always seem to matter, even if you are ultimately attracked to the other gender.

[Shell]

Shadow, you bring up a good point.  Do you think this happens with females more than males?  Or do you think males maybe both do equally but males may be less likely to express, explore, or even admit this about themselves?

[shadow]

I think it is equal, but males would be less likely to admit to it. I think a lot of guys would be afraid to admit to any feelings or attraction they have to another one.

[Shell]

Why do you think this is?

I believe society plays a huge part in this.  Look at how women are objectified as sexual objects already and then to add female homosexuality on top of that.

Men are seen as masculine - lion, owner of the pride type of thing you know?  There is so much pressure on men to be "macho" and all that.

[shadow]

Being in high school, it seems to the mainstream of people "girls making out is hott!!"  and  "guys making out... creepy."  That seems to be the vive the general population gives out. I agree, I they want to seem more macho and manly.  They seem to really pick on each other when one doesn't seem "manly" enough.

[Kpsymom]

I agree with shadow and would like to add that peer pressure often turns girls toward appearing "bisexual" even if they do not FEEL attracted to women physically or emotionally. Just as peer pressure makes boys think that it isn�t ok to be interested in other males physically or emotionally. I also agree with the statement that was said a few times here about being attracted to sex itself (or pleasure either way) than the specific gender.

HAMFARM: if you can work past any outside influences you have had in your life about gender roles or people saying it is or isn�t ok to be gay, I think you will find your answers. You said you always tried to be as masculine as you could. I think you should try being only as masculine as you feel! I doubt playing dress up has much influence here, when I get ready in the morning, my 2 year old son likes to mimic me and pretend to put makeup on, but he is still obsessed with trucks, the bigger the truck the more he likes it! If he grows up to be straight, would you say its because he played with trucks as a child? No, so same goes for your dress-up. While many factors, including genetics, might play a role in sexual orientation, If you decide you DON�T WANT to be attracted to men, and succeed at not being so, it probably has more to do with the topic of being attracted to sex itself. However, if you truly, within yourself, ignore outside influences and realize that you are attracted to men (to me the deciding factor of homosexuality or bisexuality is whether you are attracted to the same sex emotionally as well as physically) You will be much less confused if you just accept it. (easier said than done, I know) I hope this made sense, personally, one of my psychological issues is communicating my thoughts coherently!

[crash]

Sorry to bump such an old thread, but as I read through this, a few things pop to mind. First off, I did not vote in the poll because I, like others have already stated, do not feel that the issue is simply a black and white answer. There is clearly a biological link to homosexuality as evidenced by 1.) "The Twin Studies" @ the University of Minnesota, 2.) The noted size difference in the Corpus Callosum(sp?), and 3.) noted differences in pupil dilation between heterosexual and homosexual men when exposed to erotic stimuli.

There is also speculation that prenatal exposure to levels of different hormones may influence sexuality.

With all this being said, I will not discount the social influences and Object Relations Theory when one questions their sexuality.  

[Enigma]

The OP is a classic case of how society's rigid views on sexuality confuses and damages its members.  The OP's experiences are perfectly normal human behavior.  People need to accept the fact that homosexuality exists and will sometimes, consciously or unconsciously, effect your life.  The OP know's he is not gay, but is not at peace with perfectly natural homosexual dreams and desires.  Hence the confusion.