Author Topic: What do I do?  (Read 382 times)

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OutofBounds

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What do I do?
« on: September 06, 2011, 04:59:27 AM »
I need some questions answered so please forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong place/forum, and if anyone can provide a link.

I'm currently in a relationship and my partner's daughter is 19, still living at home, living on the dole (gets gov. money that tax payers pay!) And is the perfect example of a Wolf in Sheep's clothing. She is a manipulator, bossy, chronic complainer who will bitch about something and then turn the tables on someone else and make it look like she's the innocent victim. She is VERY good at this.... but because I can see right through her and I am not her blood relative, she will not try anything of sorts on me. But will directly and indirectly manipulate the rest of her family.

She is a typical lazy ass person who will try and seems to manage quite well at getting something for nothing. Always says... "why should I do this...." "what will I get for it?" Etc.

I'm in a situation where I'm wondering due to her age, what rights I have in telling her off and at what point can I make a stand with her. When we argue she goes crying to her mum and then her mum is caught in the middle. Her mum knows she is a little manipulator and lier etc etc, but because she is her daughter, will tend to fend for her and lean her way.

I KNOW I'm right in what I say to my partner, but who am I to judge my partner's parenting skills? Especially when her daughter is 19!? NOT 5 or 12....   What can I say or do to make things right? To make my partner understand where I am coming from?

5 years I've been dealing with them both. I love my partner to death but her daughter is simply impossible to live with. I sometimes cringe when she just walks in the room expecting to hear her annoying whinging and complaining. I cant' breathe sometimes... and yes my partner is fully aware of it. Fully aware of how I feel, but most times I feel like my opinion doesn't matter and what I try to say to my partner doesn't matter. It's like my partner comes up with excuses FOR her and I can't negotiate.

Seeing a therapist (couples or likewise) is not in my partner's vocabulary. To her, it's NO ONES business about "us" or our personal lives but our own.

What do I do?

sakoz

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2011, 05:00:42 PM »
OutofBounds;  As David Letterman would say; "I wouldn't give your problem to a monkey on a rock." Humor aside. You wrote;" I sometimes cringe when she just walks in the room expecting to hear her annoying whinging and complaining". I'm not a therapist so use caution about what I write. Your so close to the situation you can't see what I see in your statement.
I'm glad you used the word "sometimes" in that quote, otherwise I would say after several repetitions of interacting with her, you formed a"conditioned reaction" similar to Pavlovian Conditioning.
Do you see how your 'expectation' is part of overall context or environment? If you 'cringe' when she walks into the room and has not yet spoken, to what are you reacting? She is not yet speaking, so the only 'active' factor is your 'expectation'. Your familar with the placebo/nocebo effects? It's about reacting to what we believe, even if we're not aware of believing.
We can't change other people; so the only real option left is to change our own reactions. Your familar with 'job stress'? Here's the catch, one person claims the job is stressing them, but another person doing the same job is happy about it. Clearly it's not the job per se causing stress in one but not in the other. Think of the young lady as the job  in my example. If she has any friends, that shows she can be 'liked'. Here's a radical approach, next time she walks in the room before she speaks, walk up to her and hug her; If that's too drastic for you to even try it; try speaking first and ask her; "how are you going to annoy me" or "what's your present complaint?'.
I got approach from the riddle; There was a,hangman posted at the bridge entrance to a village. His job was to determine if a person was lying or telling the truth. If lying he would hang them on the spot.* A wise guy stranger reached the hangman and said; " Your going to hang me". What does the hangman do? He lets the stranger pass. The hangman was in a catch-22 or a double-bind.
The way out was to let the,guy pass. Stop your 'old' reactions and try something 'new', don't lock yourself into 'conditioned reaction'.

* The riddle part is to ask you;" What would you say to the hangman so as to be sure he lets you pass?" But I bypassed that part.

If listening(obeying) to you is the last thing she'd do, then ask her to do what she's doing, the only way she can resist doing what you ask is to stop her  "bitching', etc. (lol)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2011, 10:54:11 PM by sakoz »

OutofBounds

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2011, 11:27:26 AM »
Quote
so the only real option left is to change our own reactions.
Does that include beating the 5h!t out of her?

Not the answer I was after but thanks for the reply.

I found a book called "In Sheep's Clothing" and it's a remarkable book that totally explains the type of person she is. A covert-agressive.... manipulator.
They are ruthless manipulative people who will make you feel like your the bully or that you are wrong, they'll lie to get their own way, they'll twist words to make you the one to second guess yourself.

That is who she is and whether I follow through with my own plans and ruin my relationship with my partner, so be it, but I won't have her "controlling" MY life.

sakoz

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2011, 09:36:42 PM »
It may be presumptuous of me to assume you missed a subtle point. You won't have her "controlling" YOUR life. Neither will she let you control hers.
So she 'manipulates'? If you ORDER her to manipulate, who's 'manipulating'? She won't have.it, so how can she defy you? by not doing what you order her to do.
( don't dismiss this without trying it ; however 'subtly; just because it 'seems' counterintuitive or even illogical.)
« Last Edit: September 07, 2011, 09:50:02 PM by sakoz »

OutofBounds

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2011, 10:01:57 PM »
Well talking on here will do no good then hey? As you seem to think it's "me". You don't know her, what's she's done in the past, what I've SEEN (with me only standing in the sidelines watching it all unfold for 3 years) how she treats her family members, how she tries to control everyone's life, telling THEM how they think they should act etc etc.

So don't tell ME, I should change....


Adios...

sakoz

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2011, 11:23:19 PM »
"OutofBounds" as a name suits you. Where are you coming from? Who's talking about "changing" YOU? Where's THAT coming from? Your being asked to try a 'ploy'. A "psychological judo' move.
Shall I spell it out for you?  Take whats she's doing and tell her to do it, tell her to do more of it. Does she listen to what you tell her to do? How can she defy you? By not doing what you tell her to do.
« Last Edit: September 09, 2011, 05:15:49 PM by sakoz »

slinkysally

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #6 on: September 08, 2011, 03:03:47 PM »
Considering that it's too difficult for me to have any kind of real insight into the specifics of your situation, I'll simplify my point of view. It's either something that you change, or something you're left to accept. Towards changing the situation, the best thing would probably be to try to express honestly and openly your point of view to your partner, without judging them for their role in the matter or things of this nature, just an expression of your feelings. Written if it helps. Try to find out exactly what she feels as well, about her daughter's behavior, what she considers her role and her abilities to influence the situation. And from there, try to negotiate an arrangement that will suit you both.
And, if it's not really possible to make much of a change in regards to her behavior or her presence in your life, and if it's not a deal breaker in terms of your relationship, it'll be your responsibility to look for ways to accept it for what it is and work with your feelings. If you can't change it, you'll have to devise a reasonable strategy for dealing with it, and a lot of that will probably consist of taking responsibility for your own feelings and changing them.
Not a psychologist but I do work for one. :D

OutofBounds

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2011, 11:57:44 PM »
Quote
the best thing would probably be to try to express honestly and openly your point of view to your partner, without judging them for their role in the matter or things of this nature, just an expression of your feelings.
THANK YOU!
Yes, I have talked with my partner on numerous occasions telling her exactly how I feel. Now, my partner knows that her daughter is a conniving manipulative her-way-or-highway type of person and does her best to try to stop her from doing things.

I'll throw some actually instances of daughters behaviour
1. Daughter has 3 cats. Used to have a bird and then there's my dog that I raised from a puppy (he's now 10). She wanted a dog REALLY bad and begged and pleaded to have one of her own. (she was 17 at the time). I tried so hard to tell my partner exactly how I felt about her getting a dog. That she is too irresponsible and too selfish to take care of a "needy" animals.  Cats are independent. Easy for her. But for weeks she insisted. Said she was gonna do it anyway. She told us she was getting a black lab. So, we figure, ok, they're pretty calm dogs, not overly excited or needs a whole heap of exercise.... but I still had my doubts. She came home with a Border Collie pup. 2 days in she started crying saying she can't handle it, she can't take care of it, it's too much... (because it's taking away from her OWN time). After a week she just pretty much ignored the dog and left it outside expecting the rest of the family to pay attention to it and take care of it. It tore up the whole backyard. We all know Border Colllies belong on FARMS, not small little backyard dogs. We had holes everywhere.... we got rid of the dog.

2. She wants a bed - a new bed - and insists and begs and pleads with her mother to take her to get a new bed. the get one, she gets it home and shit you not she turns around and says I don't want it anymore, can we take it back!

3. Now she decides maybe a little dog would be best. (Chihuahua) I nearly flipped!! But she insisted, it'll be easier to take care of. We KNEW that wasn't the issue... small does not mean you can ignore it..... she still got it (now 18 years old). Less than 24 hours and she's bawling her eyes out... I can't do this. I really thought I could, I can't do this please don't tell (me) about it. .............. we now have a 1.5 year old Chihuahua because my partner and I refused to bring it back. She is OUR dog now, not the daughters. We just couldn't do it to another animal.

4. Internet, if anyone else is on it when she's on it playing her games and feels the latency, she flips out and yells at everyone to get off or what's wrong with the internet or who's downloading things! You're slowing ME down, STOP!

5. Contradicts herself. One day says she hates milk, yet we catch her guzzling down a glass then quickly says she was thristy and there was nothing else.  Says she hates fizzy drinks, but there's all sorts of carbonated drinks on HER shelf of the fridge (yes she insisted on her own shelf in the fridge).

Most times I sit back and watch her yelling and verbally abusing her family, only to turn the tables and make everyone else the bad guy and her the victim. My partners youngest has gone off to live with her boyfriends family because she can't take her own sister. The middle child (17) is moving out to go live with his father.

I've said my bits to my partner, the daughter will never change... not unless she starts to expeirence more in life than just the 4 corners of her room and the inside walls of the house. Yet, she is totally different when out shopping.. she's like a little 4 year old girl hiding behind her mother's legs.

I told my partner before I moved in with them that I wouldn't take that type of abuse (because I've heard it before hand) and that if she lashes out at me, I'll give it right back. I was given the ok to do this 5 years ago. But, because she is "clever".... she has a way of putting my partner inbetween us and makes me out to be the bad guy.

Just the other day my partner got called into work but had initially had plans to go shoppign with her daughter (she won't go alone or just hates going alone, dunno) but she flipped out and started crying and carrying on, you always do this to me! etc etc... it was a one off thing! We told her to take the car and go... I was home that day sick... but she refused.

She has a tendency to argue with everything. Just for the sake of argument. We thought she would make a good politician. Lies and talks crap, false beliefs. She also has to be the one to like something first. We'll like a song, she'll instantly say she can't stand it and cut it down and cringe and carry on about the song telling us to change the station or switch the song. A few weeks later she'll be playing it non stop in her room and then will come out and say "listen to this great song I heard" when it was US that introduced her to it in the first place.

This are just a few little things but add these up maybe 5 or 10 per day, everyday for 5 years....

I hope what I've written will give you SOME insight to her behaviour. But she IS a chronic complainer, chronic whinger, HAS to find something to complain about. On a good day she acts like a 5 year old, SQEEEing when her favourite tv show is about to come on. LITERALLY jumps up and down and LITERALLY flaps her hands around and claps. Sometimes I wish I was secretly recording her so I could show her just how ridiculous she looks at 19.

Dr. Jeckly and Miss. Hyde!

Sorry so long and winded.... but in essence, Yes, I have spoken and talked to my partner. I dont' HATE her daughter, I'm just really getting annoyed at her antics and I'm sick to death of hearing her shouting and name calling and demands. When she comes to the door and pounds on it - YEAH I cringe... because.... HERE IT COMES! And 90% of the time, I'm right.

She doesn't work, lives off gov. money and just yesterday got a call for an interview here where I work part-time. My doing.... I think she needs to get off her lazy ass and experience life. Anyway... she seems excited about it and then said she was gonna milk the gov. money as long as she can. We tried to tell her thats not how it works but heaven forbid we try to tell HER anything about life. She knows it all!

S. Earl Martin

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Re: What do I do?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2011, 03:07:14 PM »
In any situation you have the dominant and recessive. Those who control and those being controlled. If she is controlling the other members and they don't express a problem with it. You could be fighting a losing battle. Unless they have a desire to change the status quo, you not only will be on your own, but they may defend the situation and take her side. If you really want to change things you will have to convince the other people change is needed. If this situation has existed for a long time that may not be easy. Check out mediation techniques. Positions and interests. You are expressing your positions. The interests are what is best for all involved. This "might" lead the others to see what is best for them. They have to be willing to want to change the situation.
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