Depression as a learned behavior?

[Kpsymom]

I grew up with a bi-polar mother, and mental-health issues in general are very common in my family. While I feel that some of my depression characteristics are genetic, I am also becoming aware of specific reactions to things that can cause me to be depressed when I am simply mirroring the behaviour of my mother. I find that these “feelings” are easier for me to correct than others as well.

I don’t know much about the science of mental health, but what I have heard is that things like depression, in the brain, are like the wrong neuropath ways are stronger than the right ones, or things are “misfiring” or “chemical imbalances“.  I’m sure someone can explain that better for me.

But what about a habit or learned behaviour? Aren’t these also certain pathways in the brain being stronger than the others?

I don’t know if any of that made sense! But my question would be: Is there such a thing as Learned depression?

[SWM]

hi kypsy, sprry i've not had a chance to post to this topic before today.

While I feel that some of my depression characteristics are genetic, I am also becoming aware of specific reactions to things that can cause me to be depressed when I am simply mirroring the behaviour of my mother. I find that these “feelings” are easier for me to correct than others as well.

i am curious as to what characteristics you feel you have inherited genetically. regards mirroring the behaviour of your mother you have learned to behave in a particular way at particular times.  you are running a program of cognitive, emotional and behavioural repsonses that i definitely agree with this way of thinking. it seems you have learned from your mother how to respond in a particular situation. this response involves thoughs and feelings which lead you to feel depressed. is that right?

I don’t know much about the science of mental health, but what I have heard is that things like depression, in the brain, are like the wrong neuropath ways are stronger than the right ones, or things are “misfiring” or “chemical imbalances“.  I’m sure someone can explain that better for me.

bio-psychiatry supports the "chemical imbalance" idea and this is what gives rise to the industry of psychopharmacology these two forces support and maintain each other. while i have to admit that there is plaenty of evidence for the use of medication in psychiatry the results that i see face to face with individuals is more of a psychological anaesthetic effect a numbing of the emotions. depression is possibly the most easily treatable of all the psychiatric disorders. medication often has good effect for depression. for antipsychotic medication i am not so sure about the quality of treatment that medication provides, and biopsychiatry is a long way from getting any where near as good results with the antipsychotic medications. 

But what about a habit or learned behaviour? Aren’t these also certain pathways in the brain being stronger than the others?

I don’t know if any of that made sense! But my question would be: Is there such a thing as Learned depression?

i think so, a depressed person will have learned to think about themselves and the world about them in a way which further increases their unhappiness with themselves and the world. a person who is depressed will likely see the themselves and the world in a negative way and will not hold any hope for change in the future.

just as this is a learned behaviour or state of being this can be unlearned and new ways of thinking can be learned.

[Merana]

This is very interesting. I don't know whether depression can be "genetic," but I think it is possible that children learn certain behaviors / reactions from their parents. If this is something the child grows up seeing, they take it as "normal," to some degree. Later on they might understand that this is not a normal thing, but it is too deeply ingrained by that point and difficult to change.

[liza123]

Children learn from their parents. A parent 's depression affects the children. It depends whether the child takes it positively or negatively. The child might learn some depressive habits or behaviour. But, as they grow older, they may change their behaviour. I do not think that they end up as depressed as their parents though

[ari11]

I'm not sure myself whether depression is genetic or learned..or both. My mom was diagnosed with major depressive disorder for as long as I can remember, and as a child- especially a teenager, it was very difficult for me. I find it nearly impossible to recall a truly happy time with my mother so you would think with her genes and living in her household all those years I would show signs of depression too. But I do NOT.

 I don't know if it was because of my dad...who I am most like, both of us bound and determined to be happy, or if my mom's depression actually influenced the opposite in me-- seeing her going through what she was going through, and seeing how miserable she was, rather than that influencing me to become depressed as well...a learned behavior...instead that influenced me to not be like her at all. Her depression made me try all the harder to focus on the good and be happy in my life.

[hortonpilot]

Learned thing, why not in some cases?

Fine if you can chose your parents.

Horton.

[futureshrink]

It can't be "learned" (at least not in any simple sense) because it's an affective (mood) disorder not a cognitive one. Not everybody's depression is filled with negative judgments about themselves or the world.

As for the neurotransmitter theory, it's unclear whether the downregulation in neurotransmitters is the cause of the depression, or vice versa. Although, clearly, antidepressants are very useful. However, they are not a "cure" (although I recently read a blurb on Science Daily about how they help to (re)grow brain cells). They are a useful band aid that allows one to make progress in areas of life that will change the underlying personal and environmental problems.

--Peter

[alloker]

There is a theory (e.g., Martin Seligman) describing depression as "learned helplessness." This theory misses a very important point: It is only unconscious learning that causes depression, because conscious learning is open to conscious correction while unconscious learning is not.

Another very important feature of depression and all other non-organic mental disorders that is ignored by everyone is that the symptoms of these disorders have self-protective functions.

The function of depression is to limit activity in order to prevent harmful failures. Depression is caused, i.e., becomes needed, when a person experiences harmful failures of many different types for a long time. It is because of this situation that the unconscious decides to limit all activity to prevent further harmful failures.

Time-out in basketball is a conscious version of depression, which is not a mental disorder because it is realized consciously and is limited in duration and type of activity.

Cognitive therapy of depression consists of reviewing one's past experiences of failure and evaluating their causes, which may be no more valid or could be consciously eliminated. This will make depression unnecessary.

I recommend two types of behavior therapy: (a) The depressed person can willfully stay absolutely motionless for a long time until he or she feels an urge to act; (b) he or she can prearrange some easy tasks that will give him or her a chance to experience success. Success is the best remedy in all types of non-organic mental disorders.

[hortonpilot]

Interesting, yes?
But pretty obviously we can use behaviors that enhance our lives rather than defend us from stuff we might perceive to be happening.
Positive attitude is a mark of self esteem , which is what it is all about.

I feel some discussion has drifted off from the very obvious, which is some parents pass on the most unconstructive skills/habits to their children.
Kids learn these very destructive behaviors and their lives suffer.

Out-comes are directly related to destructive behavior.

Horton

[alloker]

"But pretty obviously we can use behaviors that enhance our lives rather than defend us from stuff we might perceive to be happening."

Consciousness tries to realize success, gain, pleasure, and happiness in as many areas of activity as possible. When it experiences failures in some areas and sees no way of terminating them, it ignores or undrestimates them and tries to compensate for them by trying to be more successful where it can do that.

The unconscious normally helps consciousness to attain its goals. But when consciousness does not try sufficiently to teminate some failures that have intolerably harmful consequences while it consentrates on successes, the unconscious acts on its own for terminating them. The result is the production of self-protective symptoms and dreams by the unconscious, which is what creates the picture of non-organic mental disorder (primary mental disorder).

Evolution has created this mode of mental functioning. Consciousness and the unconscious are the new cortexes on the left and the right sides of the brain, respectively. The right brain matures before the left in childhood and is therefore equipped especially with self-protective functions because this is what the child nees primarily.

The left brain becomes the master after it reaches sufficient maturity. But when it fails to protect the organism for any reason, the right brain interferes with its automatic self-protection mechanisms, as described above.

Evolution has not entrusted the human organism solely to its consciousness and free will but backed these up with self-protection mechanisms that are activated automatically whenever consciousness fails intolerably to protect the organism.

[hortonpilot]

At the most basic level we need to make choices that ensure positive outcomes?
Every day people make choices that at best are poorly thought out.
Consider the consequences?

Horton

[alloker]

All "poorly thought out" choices do not necessitate automatic self-protection through symptoms and dreams. It is when (a) consciousness does not deal adequately with the consequences of such choices, and especially if it underestimates and ignores the harms caused by them, and (b) the harms affect self-confidence and mental health and endanger survival that the unconscious interferes with automatic self-protection responses such as symptoms and dreams.

In reality, even the unconscious of healthy persons contributes to the self-protection effort of consciousness. Consequently, some automatic self-protection responses are produced both as normal responses of healthy persons and as symptoms of mental disorders. For example, fear, anxiety, and pain have obvious self-protective functions when they are not too intense, and they also occur as symptoms of mental disorders.

Even responses similar to the symptoms of the most severe mental disorders are produced by healthy persons but don't create the picture of mental disorder because they are consciously controlled in some measure. It is when the automatic self-protection responses remain completely outside of conscious control and cause harmful side consequences that they create the picture of mental disorder.