Has anybody experience of the 12 steps recovery model

[ellion]

The 12 step model of recovery from addictions has had both good and bad reports.
As far as I am aware there is not much evidence of positive outcomes and perhaps more evidence of high relapse rates. Particularly significant is the fact that many people are unable to accept the religious aspects of the model.

These are the original Twelve Steps as published by Alcoholics Anonymous.
1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.
4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.
5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.
6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.
7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.
8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.
9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.
11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His Will for us and the power to carry that out.
12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

In some cases, where other twelve-step groups have adapted the AA steps as guiding principles, they have been altered to emphasize principles important to those particular fellowships, to remove gender biased or specific religious language.

I would be interested in hearing about other peoples experience of the 12 steps, including friends or family that have entered the 12 stepo program and the success rates people have had.

[Agni]

I noticed the most important thing in the movement of Alcoholics Anonymous is helping to each other, changing the expirience and personal development. Because I perceive this program not only as a therapeutic program but as a program of personal development. One alcoholic told me once: "Participating in this program gives me tools for my daily life to live sober and theraphy {proffesional} gives me knowledge". Usually in Poland addicted to alcohol people take both of them. I know man who has been sober for last few years and he still comes to AA because he wants to help others who are in worse situation. You know the best preaching is preaching by own example. It gives this inner force when you are addicted and you see someone who is sober and who wants to share his/her own expirience to help others. I aware that program of 12 steps can be unacceptable for atheists but I noticed that addicted people turn  to God very often. If they are feel powerless there must be someone who has this power, yes??

[Agni]

I forgot about one important thing: in  Polish  text of 12 Steps it is not said GOD but Higher Force. I think it makes it more acceptable for different people.

[SWM]

there are non religious versions of the 12 steps here too, many of the criticisms about the 12 steps i have encountered have been about those religious declarations.

even the suggestion of a higher power is for some people still viewed as mystical and supernatural.

do you still work with the 12 steps agni?

[corwin137]

This is always an interesting thing to me.  First, I have experience with this stuff, on both sides of the 12-step fence.

To dispel one myth though: as there's no one in charge in 12 step programs, no one to answer to, the idea that one has to do anything to be a "member", including belief in some "higher power" or any variation on that theme is demonstrably false.  There's plenty of atheists in AA, and plenty of atheist and agnostic meetings listed in the meeting directories for reference.  The prayers are not at all meetings, not any more than traditional, and when people opt out of such, no one even blinks an eye.  Just sayin'.

As for efficacy...

It's difficult to get hard data in a program that's anonymous.  That's always one problem with the "data" that's shown.  As there's no membership list, no one in charge (as aforementioned), it would be difficult to organize any cooperation in this way.  Also don't know anyone that's actually been polled/interviewed about such information. 

What I think is more relevant though, is that we want to measure it's efficacy- and this needs to be defined.  Is it defined as "permanent abstinence from ETOH"?  From drugs and alchohol?  Prescriptions?  How about psych meds?  How about periods of abstinence?  How about those that switch to activity addictions (gambling, sex, food...)?

Let's say simply that we've defined "recovery" as permanent abstinence from all "illicit" drugs and alcohol.  The prescription for this in 12-step programs... is the 12-steps.  So, anyone polled/interviewed would have to have completed the 12-steps no?  We wouldn't determine the efficacy of the latest and greatest non-SSRI if the patient was non-compliant with the regime, no?

Where I'm going with this last thing is that I see a huge (well, total, that I'm aware of by personal experience... FWIW) efficacy of "recovery" for those that have completed the 12-steps.  This is anecdotal of course, but no one I know ignores their own experience.  Not advocating that this is the only way by any stretch, but that in terms of it's efficacy what I believe is overlooked is whether or not the treatment has truly been tried.  Have seen people maintain this narrow definition of recovery thru individual therapy, churches, a couple other places.  That though (simply defining recovery as permanent abstinence from _____, I have some concerns about, but that's another thread.

[Agni]

Hi Stan, I have not replied for long time for your post, because I have only a little spare time and I try to do many different things;)). I do not work with 12 steps because I am neither therapist nor addicted person. But two years ago I was doing some research in Centre for Theraphy of Addictions (I am sorry I do not know how to write it in English) it was connected with my master's thesis and I was participiating in theraphy for sometime also .  In my life I have met many addicted people, I read about it a lot and I have my own observations and thoughts about it.     

[SWM]

Agni
i completely understand about not having time. today is my 7th day working, i am off tomorrow. hurrah!!  even when i am off i have much too much to do. booh!! 

 

i have never worked the 12 steps or done any research about them. but i have a feeling that a believe in a higher power or a belief in an external force would work as a positive influence in a persons motivation.  however, i believe that much more beneficial and much easier to facilitate as a therapist is the belief in the individual. i believe that every person i work with has the power within themselves to make the changes they need, and as part of my work i will endeavour to give each person that same belief in themself. i want my clients to believe "i can do this", "i can beat this myself", "I WILL OVERCOME". a belief in god will help, a belief in a higher power may help, but when a person has belief in themselves nothing else matters, that person can achieve any goals they strive for.


Corwin

i am in ageement with your points about recovery, i think recovery should be more than just achieving abstinence. while i understand that abstinence is a big step in the direction of recovery, recovery should not stop with abstinence.

[Agni]

Stan: I have noticed many times that our desires determinate a lot of things. If someone wants to help themselves this is the right time to get help from the others. So important: having this desire to overcome...

Recovering for me means 1) abstinence 2) disarmament of mechanisms of addiction . I do not know if I translated it properly... In Poland addictions are treaten as  a disease, it is said you are addicted to the rest of life but you can live in completely abstinence. As far as I see from yours previous posts and posts from another topic Polish model of psychoteraphy is very specific. I hope next week I will have more time and will be able to write more about it if you want....

[corwin137]

Glad Agni more specifically addressed the definition of recovery.  My (hopefully) humble definition:

1.  Total abstinence from the behavior, permanently.

2.  Being happy under all circumstances.  (This does not imply solely happy- I mean grace despite shame, fear, sadness, etc...)

3.  Growing "spiritually"- "spirit" as defined by Aquinas:
"Spirit is our relatedness to the totality of existence."

[SWM]

i would also view growth and organism as a fundamental aspect of recovery.
thinking in terms of person-centred theory, (carl rogers) the organism indulges in many forms of self destructive behaviours when there growth is impeded due to external conditions or introjected values. the process of therapy enables the individual to grow in this organismic way by overcoming introjects and external conditions.