Author Topic: i need help (Read 3091 times)

angel123 · « **on:** June 16, 2009, 06:08:12 PM »

hey
i just want to share my feeling and to ask if this is considered a mental disorder :

what happen is that i feel i am always living in a dream or i am in a coma even when i am awake , i don't feel like i am in a real world even if i really do , it's like i need to wake up , but i couldn't . but things happen and i need to wake up

voodoo scientist · « **Reply #1 on:** June 16, 2009, 06:26:38 PM »

Delusion is a serious symptom that could be indicative of either a neurological or mental disorder, and could be quite serious harmful to your quality of life. Yes, seek help.

SWM · « **Reply #2 on:** June 16, 2009, 11:57:13 PM »

Quote from: voodoo scientist on June 16, 2009, 06:26:38 PM

Delusion is a serious symptom that could be indicative of either a neurological or mental disorder, and could be quite serious harmful to your quality of life. Yes, seek help.

giving people advice without qualification or experience can be extremely harmful.

voodoo scientist · « **Reply #3 on:** June 17, 2009, 11:27:36 AM »

Quote from: SWM on June 16, 2009, 11:57:13 PM

giving people advice without qualification or experience can be extremely harmful.

"Seek help" is a great piece of advice to counter exactly that possibility, because the person helping him (hopefully) has both.

SWM · « **Reply #4 on:** June 17, 2009, 12:29:59 PM »

of course. everybody that gives advice believes that the advice they give is great.

voodoo scientist · « **Reply #5 on:** June 17, 2009, 02:13:21 PM »

There is no way to determine the quality of the advice, as it does not assert anything except established psychological fact and to seek out "help". Advice of measurable quality would require a measurable result (though I suppose you could challenge the veracity of the assertion that delusion is a serious symptom that could be indicative of either a neurological or mental disorder).

SWM · « **Reply #6 on:** June 17, 2009, 08:21:31 PM »

indeed. however, it is a bit "alarmist" to say to that because someone has a delusion they may have a serious mental illness.

do you realise the impact that such a statement may have on somebody?

yes, delusions are a symptom of many forms of illness not just mental and neurological, delusions are also common experiences in people who have no mental or physical ilness.

SWM · « **Reply #7 on:** June 17, 2009, 08:35:24 PM »

Quote from: angel123 on June 16, 2009, 06:08:12 PM

hey
i just want to share my feeling and to ask if this is considered a mental disorder :

what happen is that i feel i am always living in a dream or i am in a coma even when i am awake , i don't feel like i am in a real world even if i really do , it's like i need to wake up , but i couldn't . but things happen and i need to wake up

hey! welcome.

more information is the usual repsonse to opening posts such as this. help us help you by giving as much information as you feel comfortable with.

how long have you been experiencing these feelings?

is there anything going on in your life that causes you stress, distress, grief or dis-ease, including alcohol or substance use?

if not now, were there any factors such as these present in your life when you began to feel this way?

liza123 · « **Reply #8 on:** June 18, 2009, 03:19:19 AM »

Quote from: SWM on June 17, 2009, 08:21:31 PM

indeed. however, it is a bit "alarmist" to say to that because someone has a delusion they may have a serious mental illness.

do you realise the impact that such a statement may have on somebody?

yes, delusions are a symptom of many forms of illness not just mental and neurological, delusions are also common experiences in people who have no mental or physical ilness.

if someone is seriously having a mental illiness, he/she could even take his/her own life...... such statements can be fatal in certain cases. Words can be powerful even spoken to a stranger...

voodoo scientist · « **Reply #9 on:** June 19, 2009, 12:16:31 PM »

Quote from: SWM on June 17, 2009, 08:21:31 PM

indeed. however, it is a bit "alarmist" to say to that because someone has a delusion they may have a serious mental illness.

do you realise the impact that such a statement may have on somebody?

yes, delusions are a symptom of many forms of illness not just mental and neurological, delusions are also common experiences in people who have no mental or physical ilness.

Name one condition delusion of that magnitude is a symptom of that doesn't warrant professional care.

SWM · « **Reply #10 on:** June 19, 2009, 02:05:41 PM »

Quote from: voodoo scientist on June 19, 2009, 12:16:31 PM

Name one condition delusion of that magnitude is a symptom of that doesn't warrant professional care.

that sentence does not make sense.

i think you are asking me to give an example of a delusion caused by a condition that does not require professional care.

a UTI (urinary tract infection), anxiety or a panic disorder could be the cause of an experience such as the op is presenting. in this case raising the alarm could do more harm than good. if you tell a person with an anxiety or panic disorder that they have serious problems and need immediate help, you are going to create a further panic and anxiety in that individual, causing further problematic symptoms.

voodoo scientist · « **Reply #11 on:** June 25, 2009, 01:35:29 AM »

Quote from: SWM on June 19, 2009, 02:05:41 PM

that sentence does not make sense.

i think you are asking me to give an example of a delusion caused by a condition that does not require professional care.

a UTI (urinary tract infection), anxiety or a panic disorder could be the cause of an experience such as the op is presenting. in this case raising the alarm could do more harm than good. if you tell a person with an anxiety or panic disorder that they have serious problems and need immediate help, you are going to create a further panic and anxiety in that individual, causing further problematic symptoms.

I was asking you for a condition that can cause an individual to suffer delusion to their entire sense of reality that does not require professional care. The question was rhetorical - all conditions causing delusions affecting the person's sense of reality require professional care, if only because the delusion is severe enough to affect virtually every aspect of their life.

SWM · « **Reply #12 on:** June 25, 2009, 08:28:35 AM »

the opening post is describing an experience of Depersonalization and Derealization, this is not really a delusion and there is no need to alarm the individual or make them worry further about their experience.

voodoo scientist · « **Reply #13 on:** June 25, 2009, 12:04:21 PM »

Well, it appears I've been psychowned and I concede the point. Depersonalization/realization does fit the description better, but I would say it still requires professional help - however, my tone was clearly out of line.

SWM · « **Reply #14 on:** June 25, 2009, 05:53:31 PM »

the real point is to be more aware of what you are telling people who are asking for help. if you are not absolutely certain of what is being described, then be careful of giving advice about it.

yes, professional help is more likely to be less harmful (sometimes the right words sound so wrong). in general, people are aware that there are professionals ready and willing to help, so telling people to get professional help is most likely not very helpful to them.

if people are asking for help on a forum they will have most likely considered that there are professionals that can help them.

can you imagine how the forum would be if every request for help or advice received a reply of "this could be serious get professional help" we may as well put a note at the top of the forum saying:

"if you are here to ask for advice, dont bother, go to see a professional!"

voodoo scientist · « **Reply #15 on:** June 26, 2009, 12:50:54 PM »

I suppose I had a different view of the forum. It seemed more responsible to be a source of advice on whether or not professional help was necessary, as opposed to being a replacement for professional diagnosis and care for people who don't want to go to a professional.

In light of this, I will say I'm extremely uncomfortable with diagnosing people based on Internet posts and will stay out of help threads from now on.

SWM · « **Reply #16 on:** June 27, 2009, 07:06:40 AM »

Quote from: voodoo scientist on June 26, 2009, 12:50:54 PM

I suppose I had a different view of the forum. It seemed more responsible to be a source of advice on whether or not professional help was necessary, as opposed to being a replacement for professional diagnosis and care for people who don't want to go to a professional.

we could not be a replacement for professional help and we do not propose to be, it is also necessary that we guide people to seek out the right kind of help. to be able to do this we need to be sure what the problem is.

Quote

In light of this, I will say I'm extremely uncomfortable with diagnosing people based on Internet posts and will stay out of help threads from now on.

it is right that you feel that way, neither you, me or anyone else on this forum should be diagnosing people. however there is a massive difference between diagnosing and discussing.

if i could ask to consider something, will you learn more or less about psychology by staying out of help threads? or is there a way you would be able to engage in help threads that helps you to learn about people and their problems. how might you do that?

Karaten · « **Reply #17 on:** July 01, 2009, 08:20:35 PM »

I guess I should be careful because I don't quite associate with this sort of thing. I simply see a diagnosis as a label for something I already know about.

As for the situation at hand, since you can identify yourself that it's not a dream, I think that denounces the notion of a delusion.

Do you get enough sleep? Lack of sleep can cause strange symptoms.

Milk may have jumped the gun there.

ozziemate · « **Reply #18 on:** July 18, 2009, 08:43:42 AM »

ahh you guys are really asking for trouble when offering advice over the net for people complaining of what they believe to be a psychiatric problem.

In this sort of case I personally cannot help but cringe at the thought of someone acting on poor advice even if well intended and doing something contrary to social desire that they may have not done other wise.

The rules of engagement for this forum need to be thoroughly thrashed out and heavily moderated as done by other similar forums on the net dealing with similar issues or alternatively the forum should be dropped all together..except as an info only forum rather than an advice forum. IMHO

The state of surreality the poster is complaining of could be caused by so many things.....the only advice is seek help from a GP with the view to further referrals, blood tests, MRI scans and the like depending on severity.
Also legal issues may be of a concern......so please Mr Admin Guy SWM consider the option of info /links only and no advice giving allowed other that "seek help"

In this case of the thread starter could possibly give more information maybe others can provide links to information that may help.
[imagine that she posts later and says: " Oh I forgot, I am 98 years old, I live in an assisted nursing home that runs the heater too warm, and have been taking massive amounts of painkillers "morf...something or other" I think they call it due to a recent hip replacement that got seriously infected"

SWM · « **Reply #19 on:** July 18, 2009, 09:24:58 AM »

om
i am aware of the problem with people giving advice,

the topic has covered this already, for people to give advice they need to understand what they are giving adivce about, if they are not absolutley certain what they are giving adivce about then they should refrain from giving advice. perhaps this should be made a rule of the forums.

in order to help people find the right kind of help we need to know what kind of help they want. in order to provide links and info we still need to be certain that the info and links we provide are relevant. this can only be done by gathering infomation about the problem.

as stated above people are more than aware that there are professionals out there, i am sure nobody needs to be told that. telling somebody that asks for help to go to see a professional is not very helpful.

another rule perhaps that should be made explicit for help topics is the help type topics should be for support and discussion about problems and not for advice, treatment or diagnosis.

ozziemate · « **Reply #20 on:** July 18, 2009, 09:53:49 AM »

I actually do agree...yet as this thread is a classic example whereby the poster has given nowhere near enough information to be able to offer any real value yet advice is already being offerred and diagnosis is being suggested. I am not convinced that this sort of response can be governed with out exhaustive moderation and continual intervention by those who know that more info is needed and are reluctant to discuss until that info is provided but are concerned about th epossible ramifications to the poster and the forums credibility generally.

SWM · « **Reply #21 on:** July 18, 2009, 10:25:32 AM »

what would you suggest? i am intersted in suggestions as to how we can help people, maintain healthy discussion, offer support and minimize risks.

i am currenlty the only moderator, and i dont have a problem with that as the forum is still relativley small.

regarding the op's request for help, no diagnosis has been offered or suggested in this thread. the request for more information was ignored and the topic was derailed into a dicssuion about giving advice

Karaten · « **Reply #22 on:** July 18, 2009, 07:01:37 PM »

No diagnosis has been given, rather, we simply named the symptom that was explained, then gave a few general causes, I don't remember anyone stating that this person's condition was caused by a specific problem.

ozziemate · « **Reply #23 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:26:03 PM »

It ispossible I have over reacted I must admit however when I saw this response:

Quote

Delusion is a serious symptom that could be indicative of either a neurological or mental disorder, and could be quite serious harmful to your quality of life. Yes, seek help.

I more or less cracked it...
There are so many things wrong with this sort of response that I would not know where to begin. The incorrect usage of the word delusion and then to quantify with speculative prognosis is typical of what this sort of forum will generate. And I fail to see how this sort of response can be avoided in a public posting situation. Also a lay persons understanding of definitions is very different to a medical understanding and using a word like "delusion" in a medical context with out sound justification can be extremely harmful.
I strongly recommend that the principles of operating this particular advisory board be reviewed very carefully. And No I have no answers to this issue and to tell the truth I don't think there are any. It's either allow "everything" with appropriate indemity of anonymity or not have it at all.
'tis a toughy for sure...

ozziemate · « **Reply #24 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:42:40 PM »

One of the problems is that the forum is headed by the words "Psychology forum.us" and simply having this as a heading can inspire people to assume that a professional body is running this forum. So the poster posts to a board anticipating a professional response and is already vulnerable to accepting in good faith the advice given.
I have a number of friends who are professional psychologists and they would be horrified by this particular thread. A professional code of conduct would have to be implemented and unfortunately this would be highly unlikely to prevent unprofessional advice being given wrapped up in the disguise of being professional.
I apologise if I have come across too strong on this issue however in some ways it is good that it has happened now and not later when the forum get's busier.IMO

SWM · « **Reply #25 on:** July 18, 2009, 11:59:44 PM »

what would you professional friends be horrified about?

ozziemate · « **Reply #26 on:** July 19, 2009, 12:50:14 AM »

Quote from: SWM on July 18, 2009, 11:59:44 PM

what would you professional friends be horrified about?

"the illusion of help can be far worse than no help at all...." I can almost hear my columnist psychologist [ for a provincial Town newspaper 10 years running ] say.
If the thread was maintained purely for discussion [ which was it's intent I am sure] the poster may have received benefit, I guess that maybe that the first response was as it was, and unfortunately that post virtually destroyed any benefit the poster may have been able to receive from discussion. There is a duty of care needed and that was sadly lacking.

SWM · « **Reply #27 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:20:27 AM »

i would agree with that to a point, the first reponse was unhelpful, voodoo scientist is not interested in helping people.
it would be difficult to make every member of the forum uphold a duty of care to other members.

it is quite evident from voodoo scientists responses to other people that he is not a healthcare professional and he is not interested in helping people, i have done what i can to challenge his attitude to other members where i have felt that his repsonses where innappropriate. this is all that can be done, i am not going to ban members because their repsonses are insensitive or inconsiderate, unless, they are consistently attacking people.

you have made it clear what you think about the repsonse to the opening post,
what is your opinion about how i handle this thread?

ozziemate · « **Reply #28 on:** July 19, 2009, 08:47:54 AM »

Quote from: SWM on July 19, 2009, 08:20:27 AM

i would agree with that to a point, the first reponse was unhelpful, voodoo scientist is not interested in helping people.
it would be difficult to make every member of the forum uphold a duty of care to other members.

it is quite evident from voodoo scientists responses to other people that he is not a healthcare professional and he is not interested in helping people, i have done what i can to challenge his attitude to other members where i have felt that his repsonses where innappropriate. this is all that can be done, i am not going to ban members because their repsonses are insensitive or inconsiderate, unless, they are consistently attacking people.

you have made it clear what you think about the repsonse to the opening post,
what is your opinion about how i handle this thread?

I think you have handled it as best any one could given the circumstance.

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Author Topic: i need help (Read 3091 times)