Introduction to the psychopathic life

[Vana]

Introduction to the psychopathic life

It is estimated that 5% of us are psychopaths.  But 95% of people completely misunderstand what a psychopath is. Psychopaths are the good guys. Psychopathy isn't a disease, it's a choice -- a choice to be free.  We are fearless and we follow our own private agenda with absolute conviction and confidence.  The cowering sheep are afraid, most of all of responsibility, and they want everyone to be afraid.   Modern society has lost any connection to reality: fascist and bureaucratic, in a word: evil; and that is why society framed psychopaths.  The sheep are terrified at the idea of someone with a free-will, undeterred by society's lies and corruption!

Diagnostic criteria deconstructed:

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest;
AKA civil-disobedience, standing up for what's right against the system, or doing what you believe is right regardless of the consequences.  I would do it even if it meant eternity in Hell!  How many times was Gandhi arrested? 100 or more. 

2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeatedly lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure;
As though truth and lies were different...  Lying is not illegal except in recorded contracts or in court.  If you don't have anything to hide, then why are you wearing clothes?

3. Impassivity or failure to plan ahead;
Slaves are passive, that's how society wants you to be.  Slaves do everything by the clock and on time.  People who are alive just suddenly decide to do stuff, just on a whim; creative, fun.

4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults;
Who wouldn't get annoyed with the robots!?  Frantz Fanon called real brutal violence the only possible way to unchain the inner mind.  Though in reality very few psychopaths are violent.  Evil people like Ted Bundy are not representative of all psychopaths.

5. Superficial charm
Slaves can't understand treating people pleasantly. They want every encounter to be insulting and a confrontation. 

6. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others;
Sir Edmund Hillary, etc.  Fearlessness and total confidence.  Somethings are worth more than life itself;  life is worth nothing after all.

7. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations;
'I'm just doing my job', (said the death-camp officer).  They fear spontenaity.  Slaves never 'just' do something. 

8. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.
Ashamed of breaking sheep-values?  Who would feel remorse for doing the right thing even against tyranny!?  Stolen like Robin Hood... or like capitalists do?

9. Lack of realistic, long-term goals
Great artists, Jesus, etc.

10. Narcissism, elevated self-appraisal or a sense of extreme entitlement
Slaves hate themselves and do not realize all that they can do.

11. Substance abuse
Obviously a sin, right?

12. Inability to tolerate boredom
Slaves actually prefer boredom.  Psychopaths prefer life, adventure...

13. Children with a tendency to abuse animals.
Is there any child who did not do cruel things to animals, pull a puppy-dog's tail, pull off a fly's wings -- of children who had any animal contact?

Psychology is a normalizing machine (a very large and complicated machine that uses not only people as parts, but many of its parts are even imaginary). Psychology normalizes personal values when it requires that someone should feel such-and-such way about something, or feel anything at all. Psychopathy-slander can be called one of the violations against free-though: the psychopath fits in, doesn't do anything amiss at all, goes undetected -- but isn't thinking like everyone else, and isn't feeling how everyone else does. Why would a person feel guilty about doing something they completely believe is right? Psychopathy is a tool of political mind-control.

[SWM]

which diagnostic criteria are these DSM or ICD?

oops!

[SWM]

Here we go

The diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (DSM-IV-TR 301.22):
"A. A pervasive pattern of diregard for and violation of the rights of others occuring since age 15 years, as indicated by three (or more) of the following:
(1) failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviors such as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest
(2) decietfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure
(3) impulsivity or failure to plan ahead
(4) irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults
(5) reckless disregard for the safety of self or others
(6) consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain consistent work behavior or honor financial obligations
(7) lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another
B. The individual is at least age 18 years.
C. There is evidence of Conduct Disorder (see DSM IV-TR pg. 98) with onset before age 15 years.
D. The occurance of antisocial behavior is not exclusively during the course of Schizophrenia or a Manic Episode."

[Enigma]

[hortonpilot]

Vana ,

          although people who are rebellious and questioning might share some traits with sociopath they are different by nature in that one is destructive and the other is not ?

Horton

[Vana]

Collage of psychopathy in popular culture,

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 ?

'Don't be a block-head.' - The Illuminati

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"I shall not want... Though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil."

Psalm 23

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"Nothing is true, all is permitted."

Thus Spoke Zarathustra

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'Give me liberty or give me death!'  You have to call them on that bluff.

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"I am God I was not God I am a clown of God; I am Apis. I am an Egyptian. I am a Red Indian. I am a Negro. I am a Chinaman. I am a Japanese. I am a foreigner, a stranger. I am a sea bird. I am the tree of Tolstoy. I am the root of Tolstoy.... I am husband and wife in one. I love my wife. I love my husband."

-Nijinsky

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(2:25)

And to say "Yes."

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I am holding a pencil right now; I drop it and it falls to the ground. Why did it fall like that?

No -- not because of gravity, because I dropped it.

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[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CnjaUoR15dU[/youtube]


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"Some say ya' troubled boy
Just because you like to destroy
All the things that bring the idiots joy
Well, what's wrong with a little destruction?

And the kunts won't talk to you
Cause you kissed St. Rollox adieu
Cause you robbed a supermarket or two
Well, who gives a damn about the prophets of Tesco?

Well the fallen are the virtuous among us
Walk among us
Never judge us
Yeah we're all blessed"

[hortonpilot]

SWM,
          "
The diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (DSM-IV-TR 301.22):"

What is the source?
Reading .

Interesting this as it shows being an arse is just not bad luck.
Happens because of a person's history.
Not much consolation when you are on the receiving end.

Horton

[hortonpilot]

Vana,

"Psychopathy isn't a disease, it's a choice -- a choice to be free."


Do you believe this?

Psychopaths don't actually accept the consequences of their actions very well and go into a state of denial.
The like having their fun at the expense of others but feel very hard done by when they end up before the court or in jail.

So i think their response in particularly interesting and gives a clue to their mindset?
Might then be a case of that these types are unable to reason properly and actually make choices that are not sound?

How can a psychopath who seeks "freedom" as you put it and ends up in jail be making a well thought out choice?

Most of us make choices that will get us where we want with the best consequences, the rest make choice that are in conflict with their well-being.


Horton

[Vana]

SWM,
          "
The diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (DSM-IV-TR 301.22):"

What is the source?
Reading .

Interesting this as it shows being an arse is just not bad luck.
Happens because of a person's history.
Not much consolation when you are on the receiving end.

Horton

Hell no!

It is not "because of a person's history"...

I was not born gay, I was not made gay -- I choose to be gay.

As well, we don't mean psychopath in the negative connotation (violent), we mean-it as a description of a mind set, one that can be created clinically with large doses of amnesia inducing anxiliotics.

Psychopaths don't actually accept the consequences of their actions very well and go into a state of denial.
The like having their fun at the expense of others but feel very hard done by when they end up before the court or in jail.

Psychopathy is the opposite of denial.  Psychopathy originates at psychosis.  Psychosis is the opposite of neurosis, which is what a slave and a Nazi are.  Paranoid is also an opposite of neurotic: the paranoid is trying not to be closed in, the neurotic wants to stay closed in; this is why paranoia is on the schizo-psychotic axis. 

No one should be in prison.  It does not follow, the (in)justice system is the real criminal, (as Paul said, there was no sin before the Tarah); prison is an ancient, animal, barbaric-sadistic sacrifice ritual!  The Amish and the Dutch get along without prison.

btw, there is a great comment on the psychopathic mind-set here,

http://enmped.com/ENMPED-page1.html

Very good overview in a... hmm... creative medium of expression...

The whole point of psychopathy in a single word is: 'free-will'.


Informed from discussion here, CTOP,
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/society-f3/the-hidden-suffering-of-the-psychopath-t792.htm
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/society-f3/pathocrats-evil-t753.htm
http://dissidentphilosophy.lifediscussion.net/science-f5/psychopaths-genes-rambling-gambling-t770.htm

[hortonpilot]

Vana,

  you don't mention and almost excuse the impact on the victims,why?

You reduce it all to the theoretical and don't consider it from the point of actual consequences. These people are not pranksters or on a girls night-out, but individuals who harm and degrade the lives of others as you say by their choosing.

Mind you as i said earlier sociopaths like the one-way street and the jails are full of people who have the strongest evidence against them who protest their inocense.
The double standard is what interests me, that a person is prepared to harm another yet wishes a sympathetic treatment.

I say let the victims have their way and let justice be served from the victims point of view.


Seems you have a politically correct stance towards those who make certain choices and almost elevate them to some point of status?
Don't confuse them with people are free-thinkers?
These types are not creative or of particular value to society, realy just predators.


Horton

[SWM]

hi vana,

you make some interesting points although these are not new points and they are not specific to psychopaths.
also the term psychopath is not a recognised clinical term any more, psychopath is now classified as personality disorder.

the points that you seem to be making are 1. a certain individuals have been labelled due to their experiences, beliefs, values and behaviour. 2. that these people should have repsected rights to their expereinces, beliefs, values and behaviours.
3. that the experience, beliefs, values and behaviours that are used as diagnostic criteria are a collection of beliefs, behaviours, values and experiences that all the "normal" people have.


i would also like to echo hortonpilots sentiment: as we all have the right to our own free will and you have the right to be destructive to your self and your environment we also have the right as a community and as individuals to protect ourselves from you and your destructiveness be that by incarceration or ostracism.

if you protest about our right to isolate you it is a protest against your own rights to isolate yourself.

[SWM]

SWM,
          "
The diagnostic criteria for Antisocial Personality Disorder (DSM-IV-TR 301.22):"

What is the source?
Reading .

Interesting this as it shows being an arse is just not bad luck.
Happens because of a person's history.
Not much consolation when you are on the receiving end.

Horton

hi horton the source is the DSM, it is the DSM criteria for anti-social personality disorder

[Vana]

Vana,

  you don't mention and almost excuse the impact on the victims,why?

Victimology is slave-morality.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master-slave_morality

You reduce it all to the theoretical and don't consider it from the point of actual consequences. These people are not pranksters or on a girls night-out, but individuals who harm and degrade the lives of others as you say by their choosing.

I have not intended to reduce anything to the theoretical; if I have, I have failed -- completely, to present what I want to show.  I intend to reduce everything to the real, without frame: to a root-reality prior to and without apprehension or remorse.

I give the cultural links to the Marlon Brando scene etc to show that I am talking about 'freedom of will' not about violence.  I am talking about Ernest Shackleton, not Peter Sutcliffe!

Mind you as i said earlier sociopaths like the one-way street and the jails are full of people who have the strongest evidence against them who protest their innocence.
The double standard is what interests me, that a person is prepared to harm another yet wishes a sympathetic treatment.

I say let the victims have their way and let justice be served from the victims point of view.

I take the civilized, or progressive view: anti-prison.  Although it doesn't get much air-time on TV, the anti-prison movement is actually well developed: it has religious precedent in the Quakers, Amish, and Mennonites, and a secular history in anarchism, the "freeman/sovereignty movement", and Continental post-structuralism.

Seems you have a politically correct stance towards those who make certain choices and almost elevate them to some point of status?

We all have the same status: dirt.

you make some interesting points although these are not new points and they are not specific to psychopaths.
also the term psychopath is not a recognised clinical term any more, psychopath is now classified as personality disorder.

ASPD, sociopathy, psychopathy; as you like.

 

the points that you seem to be making are 1. a certain individuals have been labelled due to their experiences, beliefs, values and behaviour. 2. that these people should have repsected rights to their expereinces, beliefs, values and behaviours.
3. that the experience, beliefs, values and behaviours that are used as diagnostic criteria are a collection of beliefs, behaviours, values and experiences that all the "normal" people have.

My deconstruction of psychopathy/ASPD is based on the method in this clip:



"1,2,3"  Not exactly.  The character of the psychopath is a religious or philosophical position.  It recognizes that:

Morality, reality, social norms; it's all made up!

'They were only fooling.'

Society represents slave morality; the criteria of psychopathy identifies people who are not swayed by bureaucratic-fascism (my word for industrial-technological society).  Free-agents are a danger to the system.  The system labels these self-motivated persons as sick and drugs and incarcerates them; something similar went on in the Soviet system too,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punitive_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union#Reaction_by_the_World_Psychiatric_Association

Here are two light and short clips to help you better wrap your mind around what it means to be free,

(Bill Hicks)

  (Aaron Russo)

i would also like to echo hortonpilots sentiment: as we all have the right to our own free will and you have the right to be destructive to your self and your environment we also have the right as a community and as individuals to protect ourselves from you and your destructiveness be that by incarceration or ostracism.

if you protest about our right to isolate you it is a protest against your own rights to isolate yourself.

Being free doesn't mean hurting others.  That is what the system wants you to believe.  Freedom VS safety is a false dichotomy, it was set up by Anglo-American think-tanks back in the 90s.

[SWM]

to reiterate nothing you are presenting is new and none of it is specific to psychopathic personalities.

you seem to want to reclaim the label of psychopath and attribute the ideas of freedom, individuality, creativity, spontaneity etc etc to this label.

all of these attibutes that you are claiming make up the psychopathic personality are also present in the general population. a point you have made yourself in your op.

i am not sure why you want a label for yourself, but the label you have chosen has connotations of causing harm or distress to others. there fore by labelling yourself in such a way you are adding to your own sense of alianation and dehumanising yourself.

[Vana]

to reiterate nothing you are presenting is new and none of it is specific to psychopathic personalities.

Maybe.  

We have posted this article on twenty or thirty discussion groups and got about 200 replies.  About 15 said, 'Yes, I see just what you mean'.  The other 185 made sorts of denials and systemic-criticisms.

It could be one of those "The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living" things, or in this case 'in the Mind of Someone non-Psychotic'.

there fore by labelling yourself in such a way you are adding to your own sense of alianation and dehumanising yourself.

This is why Iggy Pop and the Punks spat on eachother.  Dirt.  The dust.  The lowest and most despised thing; that puts us level with all, the common denominator.  This is why the psychopath is also the only impartial moral judge, the psychopath has no personal interest: no hope and no fear.   We all agree that 'prejudice' is a bad thing; we all have misgivings about a biased investigator.

to reiterate nothing you are presenting is new

LOL!  But we'd say the lesson has not yet quite been learned.


Good sources here on OverSocialization and neurosis (enemies to the psychopathic hero, think Alex Cross):

http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future




This is gonna knock your socks off, but we also maintain that homosexuality, pedophilia, depression, and schizophrenia are choices.

  

[hortonpilot]

Vana,

         the bottom line for anyone in a relationship with a sociopath/psychopath is that it is not a lot of fun for them but a fair bit of fun for the culprit.
Generally the events are destructive and cause distress for those concerned.

The basic idea we should be moving toward is behavior that has positive consequences?
Poor consequences are a bit of a problem for people and perhaps why we are even discussing in this area.
rebellion and creative thought are one thing and destructive behavior is a very different thing.

Essentially the psychopath does not want resistance from the victim and this is what i mean by the "one way street" idea.
The psychopath wants freedom to do what they like and be distanced from the consequences. No you can't have this and it is a silly notion.

Clearly you you have no practical experience with the grief that  psychopathic behavior inflicts on people, and i might add that it is mostly those who just happen to be there at the time or those who are weak.
The psychopath  is really just a bully , who will often chose his victim because there is little possibility of resistance or threat.

This is the fundemental problem with what you appear to support.
You are in fact supporting the idea that it is Ok to be destructive to others?

Destructive behavior is perhaps sometimes a choice for the culprit and most the victim has little say in the matter. The idea of responsible behavior is that we have some equality in what we chose and say in determining life-outcomes.

Psychopathic behavior is very different to the pop-culture and you seem to intellectualise it as it is one and the same?

Essentially these misfits have a rule for themselves and a rule for others and when the tables are turned they protest terribly.

If you have had anything to do with these type of people you will know they are pretty unattractive to be around , cause endless grief to those around them , are habitual liars, deceitful and can turn any good situation into a mess very quickly .
Frankly i can't see anything good going for them?


Horton

[hortonpilot]

"This is why Iggy Pop and the Punks spat on eachother.  Dirt.  The dust.  The lowest and most despised thing; that puts us level with all, the common denominator.  This is why the psychopath is also the only impartial moral judge, the psychopath has no personal interest: no hope and no fear.   We all agree that 'prejudice' is a bad thing; we all have misgivings about a biased investigator."

This does not hang together at all.
Punks actually had little idea of what they were doing it was all engineered by their manager .

Do you know the person i am talking about?

Pop-culture is a contrived reality and you seem to think it has the answers?


Horton

[SWM]

It could be one of those "The Physical Impossibility of Death in the Mind of Someone Living" things, or in this case 'in the Mind of Someone non-Psychotic'.

in which case? the reason perhaps that you find difficulty in making your point is that you dont really have one. things that you try to attribute to psychopathic are not necessarily psychopathic they are just as much quaities of normal people and more likely those that are nonconformist and anti-establishment.

when i was clinically psychotic i was diagnosed psychotic because of one key factor that is crucial for diagnosis that is that my experiences, beliefs and behaviours where distressing to my self and other people.

as i developed and i began to understand my psychosis i was no longer distressed by my experiences and beliefs and thus my behaviours no longer distressed other people. my experiences, values and beliefs, did not change a great deal but i was no longer distressed and for reason i am not clinically psychotic anymore.

This is why Iggy Pop and the Punks spat on eachother.  Dirt.  The dust.  The lowest and most despised thing; that puts us level with all, the common denominator.

that an individual feels that they have to degrade themselves in order to be equal is evidence to me of a dysfunctional thinking. why not  allow other beings to be as they are and not have to compare them by equity of worth?

 This is why the psychopath is also the only impartial moral judge, the psychopath has no personal interest: no hope and no fear.   We all agree that 'prejudice' is a bad thing; we all have misgivings about a biased investigator.

the judgements of the psychopath lack the compassion and empathy required to make judgements that involve the welfare of others.

This is gonna knock your socks off, but we also maintain that homosexuality, pedophilia, depression, and schizophrenia are choices.

hey, i need to cut my toe nails. apparently that was an astounding revelation. did you also know that homosexuality was taken out of the DSM about 30 years ago.

peoples lives are more than choice, four labels that you present here are little bit more complex than a matter of choice. speaking as an individual that has had two of those labels and worked clinically with all four of those labels.

[Vana]

The psychopath wants freedom to do what they like and be distanced from the consequences. No you can't have this and it is a silly notion.

The funny thing is hortonpilot, there are no consequences.  The psychopath learns through experience that what the common person thinks is impossible is really very simple. 

Have you ever violated a sacred taboo?  At first your hands sweat, you feel nauseous, your mind is lit up....  But later you actually learn that nothing happens.  It's like this: Columbus set sail to go around the Earth; people looked at him and said, no, no, it can't be done, you're on a suicide mission, it is the Devil!  And so on.  Columbus was brave to do it, for sure; but by the third and fourth voyage when people were still saying the Earth was flat, obviously what was Columbus thinking?  He Laughed Out Loud for sure: LOL!



Could you climb Mt. Everest?

The only answer is Yes, otherwise you are fooling yourself; Mt. E has been climbed by seniors and cripples -- You are unstoppable!

Clearly you you have no practical experience with the grief that  psychopathic behavior inflicts on people, and i might add that it is mostly those who just happen to be there at the time or those who are weak.

Who hasn't gotten the bad end of it?

Forgive and forget.

What doesn't kill me makes me stronger.

The psychopath  is really just a bully , who will often chose his victim because there is little possibility of resistance or threat.

Bully and psychopath are different.  Jesus and Gandhi for example were psychopaths but not bullies.

This is the fundemental problem with what you appear to support.
You are in fact supporting the idea that it is Ok to be destructive to others?

Frankly I am undecided if violence may be justified in support of the revolution.  I did read Fanon of course, but non-violence does avoid the hypocrisy problem -- if that's a problem?

Destructive behavior is perhaps sometimes a choice for the culprit and most the victim has little say in the matter. The idea of responsible behavior is that we have some equality in what we chose and say in determining life-outcomes.

You are way off in straw-man-left-field now, so, no comment...

Psychopathic behavior is very different to the pop-culture and you seem to intellectualise it as it is one and the same?

It is up to the times and post-modern to take as sources a wide variety of media and 'class' of media.  Anyhow, DSM-psychopaths are less violent than the population at large; and most go undetected anyhowX2.

Essentially these misfits have a rule for themselves and a rule for others and when the tables are turned they protest terribly.

Not exactly -- there are no rules at all.  The worst is when we actually believe our own lies.

If you have had anything to do with these type of people you will know they are pretty unattractive to be around , cause endless grief to those around them , are habitual liars, deceitful and can turn any good situation into a mess very quickly .
Frankly i can't see anything good going for them?

A word has many directions of meaning; by Satanifying 'psychopath' we do a great deal of damage to not only ordinary garden variety psychopaths who are just that little bit happier in their day to day life, but also the extraordinary psychopaths (like me) who rise above the fear and hate that chain people down and so live amazing and fulfilled lives, -- and obviously also to those who we are leaving supposedly by their choice happy in slavery?

Pop-culture is a contrived reality and you seem to think it has the answers?

All reality is contrived.  All argument is fallacy. 

[hortonpilot]

SWM,

        glad you made the journey to  the other side.

How are your life-outcomes now?


"that an individual feels that they have to degrade themselves in order to be equal is evidence to me of a dysfunctional thinking."
This what it is all about i feel, dysfunctional thinking and i feel Vana is trying to elevate it to an art-form.
Dysfunctional thinking has consequences and often there is envy towards people who make different choices that produce more positive outcomes.
Dysfunctional don't have properly functioning lives which is why they are called dysfunctional .

As you say,
"the judgements of the psychopath lack the compassion and empathy required to make judgements that involve the welfare of others."
This important stuff ,a real distinction.

Frankly it is no fun being the psychopath most of the time and certainly no fun being in their area.
As we get more experienced in life we understand the difference between an interesting life and a dysfunctional one ?

 The psychopath will happily shit in your bed just for a laugh or burn your house down
and the will blame you for being there .
It is never their fault.

The whole idea of the punk revolution was the idea of a Malcolm McLaren a hyper respectable semi-academic who made lots of money  out of what ever he could.
He picked the most inept stupid and talentless people and created modern pop-culture .
He admitted in an interview it was more or less done for a bet and there was no artistic sincerity involved .
and i think he said people should not read to much into it.

Horton

[hortonpilot]

Vana,

 please try to write something that is your idea and not a cut and paste?

Horton

[Vana]

This is why Iggy Pop and the Punks spat on eachother.  Dirt.  The dust.  The lowest and most despised thing; that puts us level with all, the common denominator.

that an individual feels that they have to degrade themselves in order to be equal is evidence to me of a dysfunctional thinking. why not  allow other beings to be as they are and not have to compare them by equity of worth?

This is an interesting point.  While reality is right in front of us, we often do not see it.  It takes a terrible loss or devestation to realize that we are not the ego that we project, either for others or for ourself, I mean lossing ones family, home, money, spouse, etc.

the judgements of the psychopath lack the compassion and empathy required to make judgements that involve the welfare of others.

The psychopath can read others like a book.

This is gonna knock your socks off, but we also maintain that homosexuality, pedophilia, depression, and schizophrenia are choices.

hey, i need to cut my toe nails. apparently that was an astounding revelation. did you also know that homosexuality was taken out of the DSM about 30 years ago.

peoples lives are more than choice, four labels that you present here are little bit more complex than a matter of choice. speaking as an individual that has had two of those labels and worked clinically with all four of those labels.

Let me guess: depressed-homosexual?  Schizo-pedos and depressed-homos never understand eachother!

[Vana]

Vana,

 please try to write something that is your idea and not a cut and paste?

Horton

What?  And why?

(PS: You may take anything, I claim nothing as mine.)

[SWM]

SWM,

        glad you made the journey to  the other side.

How are your life-outcomes now?

i am not sure outcomes is a word i would use. perhaps because i see myself as an organic process, there for my outcome is measured in terms of progressive fluid movement. obviously i am much happier, i am still pretty unsociable, but accepting that about myself i am happy with that, and people are generally still attracted to me despite aloofness. my goals are not much different i always wanted to make changes in my world (my sphere of influence) now my means of changing the world are different so my relative objectives are different. i did used to see myself as an artist and therefore a messenger, i now see myself as a healer - educator of individuals on a personal level with my relative objectives are in that direction.

"that an individual feels that they have to degrade themselves in order to be equal is evidence to me of a dysfunctional thinking."
This what it is all about i feel, dysfunctional thinking and i feel Vana is trying to elevate it to an art-form.

which in itself is the epitome of dysfunctional thinking. illustration, thinking is dysfunctional but not recognising it as such distorts their experience further by applying irrational beliefs arrived at through dysfunctional thinking to their world view in order to contextualise for self processing their own experience arriving at the conclusion that everybody else has dysfunctional thoughts and irrational beliefs, thinking of themselves "i am a genius, and a free thinker, unfettered by the shackles of the enslaved mindset"

Dysfunctional thinking has consequences and often there is envy towards people who make different choices that produce more positive outcomes.
Dysfunctional don't have properly functioning lives which is why they are called dysfunctional.

envy perhaps, resentment perhaps, when people have irrational beliefs about the world the result is dysfunctional thinking and this will result in dysfunctional behaviours. so the reaction to other peoples choices and the outcomes that other people produce will often be a reaction from that distorted experience.

As you say,
"the judgements of the psychopath lack the compassion and empathy required to make judgements that involve the welfare of others."
This important stuff ,a real distinction.

Frankly it is no fun being the psychopath most of the time and certainly no fun being in their area.
As we get more experienced in life we understand the difference between an interesting life and a dysfunctional one ?

and of course their distorted experience results in a reaction that seeks to validate themselves and invalidate others. such as "i am the only truly impartial judge"

The psychopath will happily shit in your bed just for a laugh or burn your house down
and the will blame you for being there .
It is never their fault.

The whole idea of the punk revolution was the idea of a Malcolm McLaren a hyper respectable semi-academic who made lots of money  out of what ever he could.
He picked the most inept stupid and talentless people and created modern pop-culture .
He admitted in an interview it was more or less done for a bet and there was no artistic sincerity involved .
and i think he said people should not read to much into it.

Horton

dont know about punks! 

[hortonpilot]

McLaren the creator of various musical fashions ,Bananarama,SexPistols-Punk held the musical world in contempt, so i find it amusing that punk is held as a example of free thinking when it was a fabrication.


Beyond personal validation and justification exists the fact that some people are just a waste of space and can't do basic things like have harmonious relationships.
Causing strife where ever you go is not an art-form.

Vana seems to think being an arse-hole is a kind of better way  to live?
Dysfunctional is just that, not being able to function.
And i often wonder why we tolerate people who cause grief and my excuses for it?


Horton

[voodoo scientist]

Have you met a psychopath? They're actually pretty interesting, just not in the way you describe. What you describe is some kind of Kurt Cobain cartoon character nobody above the age of 25 really wants to be.

[hortonpilot]

I accept the notion that a sociopath can be interesting , from a safe distance.

When you are on the receiving end it is different and not a matter of curiousity.

People get hurt, loose money , swindled and lose their marriage and worse through violence, sometimes ending in death.

Defending the other position is pretty stupid , since it implies taking away the rights of the victim?
Criminals have often more rights than the victims it seems?

Vodoo is wrong in thinking we should glorify these mother feckers and obviously lives in a plastic world .
These people cause harm.

Horton

[voodoo scientist]

All those things are true of ordinary people as well. All ordinary people cause hurt throughout their lives, many swindle and cause marriages to fail, and many ordinary people commit murders - however, glorifying psychopaths is the other extreme. I neither said nor implied that, only that they are interesting - and not just from a distance. If you interact with a psychopath knowing they are a psychopath, it's quite stimulating.