personality disorder? psychotic? please help i'm desperate

[bubblebubble24]

sorry for the length of this bear with me, I can't take this anymore so i'm desperate for answers...

my sister is in her late teens, she is very difficult and violent and has the WORST temperament ever i mean BAD, she snaps at nothing, she screams and slams things around and throws things, she has always been like this. She gave me several black eyes when she was young as in like 6, and I've ended up in the hospital because of her. She is OUT OF CONTROL. She breaks things, steals things, and verbally and emotionally abuses my whole family like you wouldnt believe.
I have never met someone with such a horrible attitude. It's very frustrating and I have an extremely stressful life I'm in my early 20s and due to a really serious accident I'm at home again with my parents until I can get out but I'm $1,000 in debt with medical bills, I've been through a LOT the past several years, and I am an extremely stressed out person to the point of serious health problems and severe insomnia. My sister stresses out EVERYONE in my family. Especially my mom and I.
She screams all the time for no reason, calling me a c**t, b**ch, everything imaginable and if you knew me im a very laid back person and im always friendly. same with my mom she targets us and there is no need.
Ive been dealing with this for 17 years, please someone help I cant take it anymore i cant even tell you how many times ive seriously wondered if going and living on the streets would be a better option because this stress is giving me a heart attack, and it's driving everyone in my house to the point of insanity- especially me.
my dad is the same way shes just like him.
it doesnt make sense because he beat me growing up but not her- im not like this at all, ever, im the least temperamental, mean person ever seriously but she is BAD and she is just like him, his mom was the same and i think her mom was too its like a domino effect and she follows the exact same pattern my dad did, which is the one his mom had and her parent and so on...
Are there genetic personality disorders or anything that would sound like this would that make sense?
Something is definitely off and we tried to get her to a therapist and it didnt work at all just made her a lot angrier, it's hell my whole life is hell and she just wont stop.
weve tried getting her professional help a few times, she FREAKS out and refuses and throws a fit like you wouldnt believe, she's in complete denial and talking to her calmly does nothing but lead to her breaking things and hurting people, she is a real whack job it's bad, she doesn't listen to reason, at all.

[gone]

You describe my daughter here. And these people are hard work. Only people who've lived with these people know there is something just not 'right'.. There are lists of symptoms like:
Verbally abusive
Spiteful
Sneeky
Violent
OPPOSITIONAL (will always disagree)
Demanding
Blaming
Attention seeking
DEFIANT
Controlling
is this a DISORDER?

For sure it is and

IT'S OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER

I came across acidentily some years ago but it totally put a label on my daughters behaviour. I know people go on about Labeling people, but really I'm all for them, they help others to understand difference in people.

See here for more information on ODD http://psychcentral.com/disorders/sx73.htm
or just google search the term.

For example she would say 'will you get me a drink' and if I didn't drop everything to 'get her a drink' she would give me abuse and then proceed to make her own drink, but because I hadn't done what she wanted she would smash a glass or spill the drink all over things then say it was my fault because I didn't get her the drink.. This is typical. They DEMAND, then ABUSE, then CONTROL, then SPITEFUL, then BLAMING and i would lose it at the BLAMING bit.. drove me crazy.. this behaviour wasn't just on occasion, it's how they operate minute by minute..

She may have OPPOSITIONAL DEFIANT DISORDER (ODD) it's worth checking out to understand.
Hope this helps.

But to be honest I've not found a solution, you can't change a personality. There are drugs for these people but I wouldn't go down that route. Many people with ODD go on to develop CONDUCT DISORDER and many of them end up with a criminal record. Not all of them though.

My only solution has been to pack her off to live with her dad (she's now 16 because he's just like that - so in theory they should be able to abuse and argue with each other which should keep them both happy). The only other thing I could do (as she refused professional help) was to bring her attention to ODD and then when she demonstrated such symptoms I would remind her of them.. That really is all one can do UNDERSTAND

ALSO IMPORTANT THESE PEOPLE GET PLEASURE FROM ANNOYING OTHERS you and I may get pleasure from laughing, these get the same pleasures from annoying someone. This is the underlying motivation for their behaviour..

She's just popped in and said 'Are you going somewhere today' just yesterday we all aranged to go out together, myself, my son and her, so she knows this. And I reply, 'yeah we're going into the city, get pizza, call into a museum, see a show etc' and she replies 'O you could have told me I'm meeting someone, so I can't come now'' I know she's lying to get a reaction (cause an argument, make me feel bad, want sympathy) so I just say 'O that's a shame, never mind there'll be another time'... And then she says' I'll cancel it with Ashley and I'll come with you'...

Every conversation has to be manipulated that way. It's crazy, but it's the only way.. She said she was meeting someone just to annoy me, she was lying. That's how they operate 24/7...

[NataEames]

Some teenagers are just like that. My sister was very aggressive with people, even our mother until she was 18-19 and moved out.
She would pick on her and find ways to twist her words and make her embarrassed as well as purely being rude.

My sister still has a problem with pathological lying and conning. She doesn't do that with me because she knows I know her better than she knows herself and that used to make her test me but now she has shut up.

She is very different personality-wise from me. As I am a very empathetic person, she doesn't feel much emotion and sympathy.
She is extremely attention-seeking but since about a year she feels very ashamed about it and tries to stop (but still sometimes does it unknowingly)

So mostly teenagers grow out of this but in rare cases this can be a disorder. In that case, it is not the child's fault or rebellion and they need to be helped.

[gone]

I really hate it when people say 'They're teenagers and just like that' that is so patronising. Sorry Nata but that is so damn patronising. As buble says 'she has always been like this' this is not a teenage thing and I find it extremely patronising when people suggest that. Until you've lived with someone like this for 16+ years you've no idea.

This is a forum for people with Kids with ODD it may/may not help http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2350979373

[NataEames]

Sorry, Mommy. I didn't mean that to hurt you.

It's just that such behaviors are usually signs of immaturity and once the person becomes responsible and reasonable, in most cases this will decrease.

Your daughter is testing you. She's pushing your buttons to see your reaction. She might argue with you even though she has the same view as you just to see how far you will go. And don't forget that her hormones are also messing with her a little. No matter how old she is, it is obvious she is still viewing the world from a child's eyes and I've actually met people in their mid-20s who are still like this.

I'm sorry but unless this is some sort of severe antisocial personality disorder, this will decrease as she gets older.

I have noticed one thing to work, however. If you give her a responsibility. Not washing dishes or chores she doesn't want but something she will work towards. Say she wants something. You can make her do some chores in order to get it, this will get a reward-system into her mind.

Also, in my sister's case. She wanted a pet and when our mom would say no, she would rebel and scream etc etc. So I suggested to my mom to say that maybe she will get it for her.
My mom told her "How can I be sure you will take care of it?". So my sister told her that she will take good care of it and my mom said "we'll see, maybe."
That was neither a "no" or a "yes" so she couldn't get angry or keep pushing it because she knew it then would become a definite "no".
My sister's behavior completely started to change because she knew the price of things now. After a while she got rewarded, my mom got her a kitten. That was kind of like hitting two birds with one stone. My sister learned the reward system and now had a responsibility of a kitten on her hands so she was learning to become more mature.

Those things were not just so it becomes easier to deal with her, she needed those lessons and experiences to survive in later life. I'm not saying this is some magic bullet to cure the behavior but I'm telling you, in my sister's case and a few more I have helped and witnessed, their behavior did become much more reasonable.

[gone]

Nata it's not that simple, yes ODD is an acute anti-social disorder. It affects family life, social life and school life. If you would like to understand Oppostional Defiant Disorder I suggest you read some post on the facebook forum above, people who live with these people suffer greatly. They operate on a whole different psycholgy and a reward for them would be for the actions to take effect (that makes them feel good - not chocolate or days out - but disruption as a consequence of their actions is their reward).

Every single action & sentence they deliver is to control or to provoke anger. They do not share the same views as reasonable people, they are at the other end of the scale. Every single action & sentence, not just the odd one.

For example control - today she came to my house and used the computer (she smashed her dads lap top up - so has to come here for computer use). So she's on my computer with headphones on, I put on some music at a low level at the other end of the room and she notices this so begins to sing at the top of her voice (disturbing my pleasure of the music I put on).. She wants me to either confront her (which will please her - they love to argue) or tolorate her loud singer which is 'controlling' the circumstance. You see what I'm saying. You can't win, they always have you over a barrel, either control you or argue with you (which is what they enjoy).

I didn't say anything but said I was going out for a while to get some sweets for halloween (the truth was I didn't want to share the same space as her while trying to annoy me) and she said Well you can't cos I'm going soon and I can't lock the door, and I said well I'll leave the key and you can lock up and leave it in the garden for me. (Again trying to control me by saying I couldn't even go out without her making it difficult)..
So after a while she agrees to lock the door and leave the key in an agreed place in the garden but not before saying 'Well if we get burgled it's your fault' (they love to blame)..  She also said she'd be back for dinner later. So anyway I go out to the shops and buy what she likes for dinner and I return home an hour later to an empty house and an unlocked door. She didn't lock the door as we agreed (again being oppositional). And she'd left a note on the table which read "I'm not staying for dinner, trick or treat!"

Grrr.. See what I mean.. They control, they lie, they blame, they make life extremely difficult. That's the last example just an hour ago, but I go through about 10 to 20 of those a day, every day. They are not like you I..

[NataEames]

Hmm, I see. How does she respond to punishment, grounding, ignoring? Do you remember the last time you had a decent time with her, when she wasn't like this? Can you recall her last happy emotions, caring emotions?

ODD is not the only thing that can cause such behaviors. It could be severe hormone imbalances or even tumors or several other things. I really hope it's neither of those.

[gone]

To answer your question, when she was younger my punishment was to send her to her room & ground her.. She would mouth swearwords at me but not verbalise them as I told her off, (I've never swear) when she did get to her room she would start to bang on the floor or throw things around the room, smashing things up (her presence always has to be felt).
A familiar pattern either ignore it and face the consequences of smashed up furniture or go to argue with her (you can't win).. If I shouted in her face in anger she would say 'I'm calling childline' (hehe - she's not short of character) she would tell people I hit her if I shouted at her (I thought she was purposely lying but she also says she's been sick when she coughs and in more recent years she's taken to faining but is really just lying down on the floor. So I've wondered if she really doesn't know the difference. But she does.. She prefers 'hitting' to shouting and vomiting to coughing and fainting they are more dramatic and she loves a drama.

About 3 times a year I get a call that says 'Your daughter has fainted and she's just being assessed to see if an ambulance is necessary' and I reply 'Fainted as in unconscious' and they reply 'Well no, but she's on the floor in the storeroom'... To me that is not fainting. Previous episodes she's been airlifted to hospital in a helicopter. Last episode she went to hospital in the ambulance and she said her arms were still weak so they x-rayed her arms!! WTF?

If you've ever seen Harrold and Maude - harrold fakes his suicides. Well I believe my daughter does the same but fakes fainting instead of deaths.

I'm just a magnet for bizarre behaving people.

She's happy with music and concerts (to obsession) and will fight and push her way to the front, and somehow always gets backstage & has her photo taken with the bands?? She gets what she wants.. Other than that she's a misery. She has a horse too which I guess makes her happy. But she's horrible with people. One could say she cares about her horse, but she doesn't really care about anything except herself. I have never witnessed her be considerate or compassionate.
She has ALWAYS been like this. When they were younger and we'd play board games as a family, we never finished one because she would trash it or walk away before the end, making sure she ruined it..
This is what ODD is.

Anyway just some info there.. which I hope promotes awareness and understanding.

[NataEames]

Damn! This sounds really bad, my sister would sometimes go as far as this. She would fake being sick and would even take some pills to make herself throw up or fall asleep and a couple times she would hit herself with an object to cause a bruise or bleeding so she could say someone else hit her - who she wanted to get in trouble.

I do have a theory that my sister still is like that because she does use and con others a lot, only keeping them around when and while she needs something from them. But she acts very charming most of the time now. Sometimes it is a little freaky, seeing her smile suddenly disappear and her face change when someone turns away.

The most shameful thing is that while I've helped so many people, I can't control my own sister.

[gone]

Sometimes Nata the only thing we can do to 'help' someone is accept them for who they are.

[NataEames]

That's depressing. Did you know my sister signed up to this forum once just to spy on me and mess with me? The moderator actually suspected me of having two accounts because she was logging in from the same house and same IP.

I was really embarrassed and felt like a fake. And I know that was exactly her goal.

She really did calm down a lot since her teenages but she didn't change.

[gone]

May be you don't have a sister, maybe you are schizophrenic and your sister is your alter ego, the bad bit of you, you can't handle so deny which manifest in another personality that of YOUR SISTER!
hehe really I joke but shouldn't laugh, just messing with you. I'm glad your 'sister' has calmed down. I sincerely hope my daughter does or pity the bloke that gets landed with her.

[NataEames]

Haha lol. She is kinda like my alter ego actually, a lot of people have made fun of that. She's like 4 minutes older than me and is very jealous that while I was "so much" younger, I matured first.

It is also very strange because twin studies have strongly suggested that if one twin has a personality disorder or problem, so will the other. I'm literally the opposite of her. Where she is apathetic and doesn't feel much towards people, I am highly sensitive and empathetic. We were asked to dress up for Halloween and even though we're a little too old for that, it was for a charity cause so I dressed up as the devil and she the angel. That went fun, especially since she got drunk out of her senses and I got a migraine.

Thinking too much about this actually just might make me schizophrenic. LOL

[hortonpilot]

I can't control my own sister.

I can't control my own sister.

I can't control my own sister.

There is your problem?

While you may not be in control you can love her.

horton

[NataEames]

I love her a lot and I don't have the unbearable urge to control her LOL

She just loves to make my day miserable that's all and sometimes I'm worried about her. I'm just scared she will be a danger to herself.

[gone]

The Evil Twin should be kept on a leash in the attic.

[hortonpilot]

I can't control my own sister.

I can't control my own sister.

I can't control my own sister.


These are your very words in triplicate!!

Horton

[gone]

You've made you're point

You've made you're point

You've made you're point

The reason no-one else mentioned the control bit is because sometimes we use the wrong words (quite easily) and anyone who's come to know Nata will know Nata is not out to control anyone but to help and understand them.

[NataEames]

Thanks mommy. And maybe I should keep her on a leash - sounds fun!

And Horton, take your OCD meds.

[hortonpilot]

Sometimes when you have no desire to control you are in the most control.
I Ching, Limitation.

I went through some of the stuff you describe  and it worked for me.
Thankfully i seemed to manage or handle that situation somehow and the person came out of the spiral , knowing that you are there and not applying pressure , judgments may have helped?

Meds hold no interest for me. Clear head trumps most of the time.

Horton

[NataEames]

You're right about the clear head. We should never be substance controlled, it affects us in ways we don't even know sometimes.

[bubblebubble24]

Wow I totally didn't even know I had replies to this because it went straight to my spam folder
Thanks you guys, this is all very helpful.  A lot of this does describe the problem- and it sucks because sometimes she's okay, like lately she's been a little better but it never lasts a long time before she's angry all the time again.  Thank you so much for your help!  I know I can't control her or anything, I just wanted some answers and wanted to know what the problem might be because no one in real life understands, and I was desperate to figure out if anyone might know of something like this! It has definitely been frustrating.

[hortonpilot]

Sometimes it is best just to walk away from a situation.
Terribly difficult when you are caught in something.

i often wonder if we can do anything ?
reduction to the most basic elements often works.

What are you feeling?
Talk about it and what you would like to happen?
What are the consequences?