Is it time America criminalized Guns?

[SWM]

Will America ever stop public ownership of guns? What would make this actually happen?

What contribution to American society has gun ownership made?

What problems do you think guns are making for the people and for the future of American society?

[Shell]

Will America ever stop public ownership of guns? What would make this actually happen?

No, I don't think it'll happen.  It's been an American right since 1791.  I don't know what it'll take, but it'll have to be pretty darn big.

What contribution to American society has gun ownership made?

In today's society, I think it provides protection.  I am in the military so I get to shoot.  But at home, I'm still a woman - a small one at that, still vulnerable to predators.  I feel comfortable knowing I can protect myself with my gun if I need to.

What problems do you think guns are making for the people and for the future of American society?

I think it is the intention of the individual that contributes to the problem.  Just like BSL for pitbulls - those dogs are bred to be human-friendly I was raised with pit bulls and they are wonderful with children.  However, in the wrong hands, you can have a killer.  You can do that with any large breed of dog.  As for guns, it is the same.  You can have one person who is an enthusiast who joins a gun club, practices his aiming on the range responsibly, and keeps his gun in a good, secure gunsafe only to take it out if he absolutely needs it.  Or you can have someone who is already violent in nature and the gun is simply an extended version of himself.  If he doesn't have a gun, it will be another weapon - a knife, a stick, his bear hands.  The intention is what makes the weapon a form of security or an enabler to one's violent tendencies.

I'm sure many will disagree with me, but it is my opinion.  I feel safe knowing my home includes security (in addition to an alarm system of course).

[cognitive]

  I feel comfortable knowing I can protect myself with my gun if I need to.

On the contrary, I would feel very uncomfortable to wear a gun , still I am not sure why do I feel that , I mean where this feeling comes from  . Maybe because I am kind of impulsive person and am afraid I will really use it if there is a need to protect myself .

[SWM]

for me i feel there must be a better way.  people say that they need protection, however in countrys that have no guns there is no need for protection because no one else has a gun either.

[corwin137]

"Last year in the US there were over 4000 gun related deaths.  In the UK... fourteen.  Let's go over those numbers again because they're a little baffling.  Once again, America, and you know how we love our guns, over 4000 deaths.  In the UK where guns are illegal... fourteen.  And there's no connection between having a gun and shooting someone with it, and not having a gun and not shooting someone with it- and you'd be a fool and a communist to make one."
-  Bill Hicks, Alien Hero Standup Philosopher satirizing

[bad]

damn! 4000 people shot, aint no better reason for me to carry a gun, in fact i better go get me some more bullets, cuz i aint gonna be the next man down.

[SWM]

i was thinking, bill hicks has been dead a few years (he was actually shot coming out of a performance) so what are the latest stats on gun related deaths, so far i found that the number of people killed by guns in the United States in 2004: was 29,569

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

[bad]

29,569 holy shit! i gonna get me a mach10

[Shell]

for me i feel there must be a better way.  people say that they need protection, however in countrys that have no guns there is no need for protection because no one else has a gun either.

The gun-related deaths are high in the US.  Still, I would feel much safer as a woman knowing I can protect myself against a man who does not need a gun to rape or kill me.  I will gladly raise the body count one more if it meant it saved my life.

I definitely understand your point of view, Stan.  I'm not a violent person at all and if the world were a pretty place without violence period, then I will gladly give up my weapon.  However, where there is evil there is a need for protection.   I've been attacked before by someone who wasn't armed.  Many women have.  If I had a gun at the time, I would've had a better chance of escaping unharmed.

[corwin137]

i was thinking, bill hicks has been dead a few years (he was actually shot coming out of a performance) so what are the latest stats on gun related deaths, so far i found that the number of people killed by guns in the United States in 2004: was 29,569

http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/jlpp/Vol30_No2_KatesMauseronline.pdf

Bill Hicks was shot once?  No shit?  Have a link?

[SWM]

no links, maybe i am wrong,

i have a video of bill hicks live, dont know where, at the beginning of the video it say that bill was shot and killed coming out of some where after one of his performances.

[corwin137]

Nah- he died of pancreatic cancer in 1994 (I think '94).

"I'll show you politics in America.  When you get elected, I think you get taken into a smoky room with the 12 capitalist scumfucks that got you there in the first place.  A guy says, 'Roll the tape.'  A big screen comes down out of the ceiling, and they show you a film of the Kennedy assasination from an angle you've
never seen before... 'Any questions?'  'Just what my agenda is...'"
-  Bill Hicks

[SWM]

uh! i feel cheated! haha

[corwin137]

Back on topic, I'm not being entirely forthcoming.  Am actually a fan of the second amendment, I just don't believe we can deal with it gracefully.

I know we've talked about martial arts a bit (hopefully not to much chagrin for you or others...), but there's a principle here that's related and important.  We have a saying that a lot of fights are simply a race to one's most powerful tool.  There's no place more true for this than with firearms.  We, humans, have a tendency to do things with a bulldozer that could have been done with a garden spade, and to justify means with ends.  That's double true, embarrassingly so, in the US.  What I'm getting at is that these "defects" prompt us to reach for guns unnecessarily.

These principles come from basic human maladjustments.  Legislating such will always have the same effect- not as much as personal "spiritual" upheaval will.  Legislation arguably helps, but it never solves problems for us.

[SWM]

i dont like the idea that as a society we should have our rights taken from us, i beleive that we should be having more rights, more choice and more freedom. i do think that anything that is dangerous to society and to individuals should be controlled in someway to minimize the harm it does.

we do have guns in britain, people are allowed to own guns for shooting at ranges and for hunting and pest control. to obtain a license a person would need to go through a lot of beuracratic procedures including criminal records and police checks.

i dont understand the bill of rights, (is it called the constitution?) but i do know it was written around the time of jesus *joking* the point i am trying to make is: is the bill of rights relevant in todays world will there ever come a time when America has to think about amending the constitution?

becuase it is written by people along time ago does it make it the rights more precious?

what about an individuals right to choose to take drugs? there are many drugs less harmful than alcohol which are legislated and controlled? if people are allowed to carry guns should other people be given the right to use drugs?

[coyote]

Ive been around guns my entire life. Owned my first, (a bee bee ) when I was 7 And I currently own a handgun. I've never been shot, or been shot at. and Ive never shot anyone. I definately think guns are controlled by the individual in whose hand it resides. If they outlaw guns in the US they will create many criminals. Because most of us would not willingly part with our guns.

[darkdan]

so far i found that the number of people killed by guns in the United States in 2004: was 29,569

Gun haters love to use that number, but keep in mind, every year roughly 50% of gun deaths are suicides.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25463844/

A good book to read is More Guns, Less Crime

Let's not forget Kennesaw, GA Where every household is required to own a gun.  Crime dropped there after that law went into effect 26+ years ago.  Still remains lower than surrounding areas.


Criminals loved unarmed victims.

[andydeskano]

Will America ever stop public ownership of guns? What would make this actually happen?

What contribution to American society has gun ownership made?

What problems do you think guns are making for the people and for the future of American society?

Well i think, the often fierce debate over the Second Amendment on gun ownership has centered on whether it was intended to protect the rights of all Americans to own guns, or only those who are members of state militia groups.

[S. Earl Martin]

I grew up around gun's. I still have the first gun I was given when I was 9. It is a 22 long bolt action. My father made sure we were taught the proper use of guns. Many times the only training people have in the U.S. is TV or video games. If you make guns illegal only criminals and the government will have guns. I have seen a number of articles were people in England and Australia are petioning to get their right to own guns back. As well as a number of cases where people didn't turn in their guns and used them to protect themselves and are know in jail. The second amendment isn't about hunting or sport shooting. It is about keeping our government in line and preventing our country from being invaded. During WW2 a japenese general said if they invaded the U.S. there would be a gun behind every blade of grass.

I have been around awhile. I have guns and I carry one with me. I don't go waveing it around or threatening anyone. But several times I have used a gun to stop crimes. Both on the street and in my home. In states where concealed carry laws are in effect the crime rate goes down. In states around the concealed carry state crime usually goes up because the criminals go there to commit their crimes. The idea if we all turned in our guns and held hands and sing kum by ya. That the world would some how break out in spontanious peace. Is not realistic. Hitler and the Nazi's promoted gun legislation and turning in of guns. It was a set up so they could seize power.

With the world economy in the shape it is in we could have a global depression. The riots you see in isolated areas could become global. I would be able to protect myself and my property. Some friends of ours didn't like guns. They said if they owned one they might be hurt. So later the husband hears a noise in their garage. He goes out to the garage with a golf club. He is over powered and beaten by two guy's. Then they go in the house and rape his wife and take their car and stuff. The car was eventually recovered, but the guy's were never caught. I have stopped burglars on my property and my neighbors property. And I wasn't carrying a golf club. One time I caught 12 illegal aliens stealing my neighbors automotive equipment. They thought about trying to circle me and jump me. So I fired a round from a .357 at their feet and told them in Spanish to sit on ground or I would shoot them. They set on the ground until the sheriff and my neighbors arrived home. Guns are a very effective deterint to crime. Yes criminal's use guns. The solution is not more gun laws, but enforceing the ones we have. The US government is trying to control the ammunition. We have a right to possess guns, but if they can stop the sale of ammunition the guns won't be of any use. Peace thru superior fire power.   

[Enigma]

If you make guns illegal only criminals and the government will have guns.   

This, this, a thousand times this.