Pert -5 Talks Spirituality

[pert -5]

psycho-mother, let me share the analogy of a finger pointing toward the moon.  All of these symbols and sephira and god names are the finger.  And the common mistake is that many mistake this finger for the actual moon they're pointing at.  Get it?  In other words, it is important not to mistake the symbols for the actual properties that they represent.

I don't care if the Masons came up with these symbols.  In fact, the origins don't mean squat to me.  Don't care, don't need to care.  What is important is that these symbols are a whole, working system on their own, independent of any history they may have.  They form a complete, working system.  That's what SWM is getting at, I think.  If they came from the Masons, so what?  I'm certainly no Mason and have never wished to be.  But the system still works.  And if it works, how can anyone say nay?  Success is thy proof.

[gone]

What system is that? the system of religion. Is that what you mean.
The system that has the Palastinians & Jews killing each other for the 'religious' land. The system that has Catholics & Protestants killing each other in Ireland? That has Muslims & Christians killing each other in the Middle East & the West? Is this the system you speak of that works?

All the pointers (as you say) point to Islam/Christianity/Catholism/Judeism/Hinduism/Buddhism etc being derived from the same religion (region), so why is everyone killing each other?

People may peel back the onion skins to a layer that suits them, but go back to the onion bulb that was planted and you may get an idea of what I'm talking about.

[SWM]

this is not about religion this is about what is beyond religion. religions also are the fingers pointing to the moon so to speak.  thank you pert for that analogy.

so you researched Yod He Shin Vav He. what did you find? how good are they at hiding their symbols?

so do you think there is a connection between Y H V H and Y H Sh V H beyond the fact that YHVH was the Lord of the Jews and YHShVH was the Lord of the Christians.

[gone]

you can't expect me to answer YOUR questions when you ignore mine, that would just be wrong!

but as you ask - you say it's about 'beyond religion', what is beyond religion to me (as a rational thinker) is man creating myths and rules to keep a society 'sedate'. I fail to see it as anything else. Imagine if you had a whole country to run, 50 million people and you knew that without control the country would descend into anachy - you had a secret knowledge, you knew that to keep control of your country was to tap into that grey matter (brain putty) that can be shaped with a few simple instructions.

That is what is beyond religion to a logical thinker, to a spiritual thinker (who's already had their brain putty manipulated) what else is beyond religion? AS a 'rational' thinker I can not descend/or as spiritualist will probably say 'ascend' into the irrational..












I will add further to this, because going 'beyond religion' for some may mean angels, communicating with the deceases, out of body experience etc..
All of which can be explained with psycology. The 'out of body' experience - often experienced by those on an operating table in theatre during an operation, when they technically died.. This SAME SENSATION can be reproduced in a lab with a certain part of the brain stimulated... therefore a person doesn't need to die to experience the 'out of body experience'.. (my Dr of Neuroscience friend told me this).. And angels etc.. Angels have only become popular in recent times, if they'd always been there, they'd have always been there, it's a FAD that susceptible people become to beleive in.
People do not need spiritualism to live a happy life, if anything it makes a life more misterable.

[pert -5]

thank you pert for that analogy.

Actually the quote comes from a guy called IAO131, an online acquaintance of mine.  Just to give credit where credit is due.  I wrote an article on dextromethorphan for his 'Society of Scientific Illuminism' project, to be precise. 

[SWM]

@pert5 did you know IAO is also a Greek form of YHVH. I imagine your friend choose that purposefully.

[pert -5]

In Gematria the number derived from the word Humility is 131.

[SWM]

looking through some of the other correlations many of them signify strong material forms, support structures or containment.

except this one oops! Peh Aleph Nun = 131 :  to commit adultery; an adulterer or adulteress; to be unfaithful (to the covenant), to apostatise; to pant or lust after.

[pert -5]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tat_Tvam_Asi#In_Advaita

[S. Earl Martin]

When Jesus was born in Bethlehem. The Maji followed the Star.  They didn't arrive until Jesus was 2 years old. How could the star be in the heavens for so long? That is because it was an astrological sign. The natal chart of Jesus was in the shape of the star of David. The magi knew this was a sign of royality and knew a king was being born. I realized this many years ago and now many people have adopted it as truth. I contacted a Christian sight that does natal charts and they did a test run with a former NASA engineer. They told me it was possible. I lost touch with them and never did find out the end results.

[gone]

the magi are interesting as they too pre-date christianity. if you study other religions especially Zorostrian they were there long before jesus or chritianity.

the 3 kings are a star constellation, also known as orions belt. sirius is the bright star that the 3 kings (3 stars) follow to the sun (not the son).. it is like everything in christianity adapted from ancient astrological myths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orion_%28constellation%29

[S. Earl Martin]

I disagree. Many similar stories and "myths are found in other cultures. That is what I would expect from someone who existed since the beginning of time. Weather it is the virgin birth or other "myths". All these things point to Jesus arrival. Again in other discussions I see the same thing happening. People who can see God in their world and people who can't. Those who can have their "proof" and those who can't have theirs.

[SWM]

Those who can have their "proof" and those who can't have theirs.

i like this.

 "those who have ears let them hear."

[S. Earl Martin]

Exactly! Wink!

[S. Earl Martin]

Oh no I am going to do 2 posts in a row!!!

I recently have started meditating more due to a gentle reminder from pert-5. I was sitting beside a small stream on my property and listening to the breeze and water flowing by. I was contemplateing something I have done in the past, but it came to me in a new clarity. It is hard to put in words because it is more like something I can know and that makes it hard to say because the words are not sufficient to describe it.

I was thinking about existence and contemplating Be/ Do. In my life I am like a coin I have two sides. One side I am doing. I must eat and sleep. I must pay my bills and take care of my personal space. This is the side I call Do.

The other side is the me sitting beside the water and clearing my mind and just allowing myself to exist. Setting myself apart from the pressure of having to worry. This allows me to focus in my life in a way that is clearer and with a lot less stress. Just being one with all that is around me. This side I call Be. Just as a coin has two sides that are different they are inseparable they make up the one in balance. Taking time to experience myself from the other side allows many positive things to happen. Thanks Pert

[psychonauting]

this thread has enlightened me

[S. Earl Martin]

psychonauting: Yes I like this forum because it has some very deep information and doesn't limit it self strictly to Psychology. Although Psychology is about studying people and their nature so in a way it still does pretain. Although you have two different kinds of people posting. One type are those who as a practice try to help people and make things better and those who are out for themselves. I think most people who come here just read the posts and don't make comments? 

[pljames]

My friend Martin,
As I understand it, there is the mystery of the trinty. I believe God walked on the earth as Jesus as the Christ in human form. He outraged the Jews because they thought he was blaspheming God. I further believe not only the name of Christ and belief will save you but the Agape love as well. How can a person truly love God and not be saved? I feel the name and belief is the love (agape) and one is saved. Thoughts? pl

P.S. Interpretation of a name is one thing but belief and spirit is totally another.

Humans always build on the beliefs and ideas of previous generations and even civilizations. I don't find that so unusual. That different religions have similar concepts or even reinterpret things and incompase them. To me is not suprising. I would be more suprised if we found a truly unique religion or culture. Look at language for example. In english we have words from many cultures. There has been a push to make the U S english only. That would be impossible. English has words from so many different languages where would you draw the line?

With religion and the belief in God though the trappings are not what is important. God is what is important. What God told us to do is important. Love your neighbor as you love your self. Forgive and you will be forgiven. If I worship on Saturday or Sunday. Or the exact method I chose that is more custom. I have been asked by a number of people " how do you get to Heaven?" " What does it mean to have Jesus?" That is a hard question. I look at the "Christians" and I see some of the most mean and judgemental people I have ever seen for the most part. I look at other people who don't claim Christ, but are spiritual and they are more kind and loving by nature. The idea that a just God would allow people who do not follow the teaching of Christ to get in because they claim the name and allow others who do follow Christs teaching to go to Hell because they don't claim the "name". Makes no sense to me. So I tell them. Love everyone and do the best you can to be honest and to love God. Christ has many names. One of those names is God. The idea that only the name Jesus will save you in my opinion is a misinterptation of scripture. The name is not the important thing. Like it is a magic word. It is the instructions that we recieved that are important. If we follow them we are truly following God or Christ. It is not an outward, but an inward change. Jesus Christ is the son of God and the Christ or Messiah. He did die for the sins of all mankind. Of this I have no doubt. That Christ is returning to rule as King I also have no doubt. Peace.

[S. Earl Martin]

God said that everyone will be judged. We must have a changed life or be born again. If we truly love God and Love our neighbor? Then we are born again. Were the word says name above all names Christians believe that is the name Jesus? Jesus was called Immanuel. Jesus is an english interptation of Yawah or God. The name above all names is God. That has to be so or Jesus the Christ would be above God and the word makes it clear that is not the case. Although I believe this to be true I don't usually point it out to Christians because they automatically believe it is blasphomy and attack me even though the Bible makes it clear they believe the incorrect intreptatoion which isn't supported by scripture. The difference comes from the heart. I have encountered many Christians that believe they are forgiven, but everyone else is going to Hell. 

[pljames]

I as well. They claim they are christian but live and believe wordly actions. It is hard to listen too them claim they are saved and turn around and do the opposite. I was saved this christmas and in love with God Jesus Christ the holy spirit and the Gospel. "I was blind but now I see". But explaining that is not easy to tell those who are lost and think they`are`saved when their tell and show me different.

I will not judge them just listen and pray for them. Humbly your friend pl

God said that everyone will be judged. We must have a changed life or be born again. If we truly love God and Love our neighbor? Then we are born again. Were the word says name above all names Christians believe that is the name Jesus? Jesus was called Immanuel. Jesus is an english interptation of Yawah or God. The name above all names is God. That has to be so or Jesus the Christ would be above God and the word makes it clear that is not the case. Although I believe this to be true I don't usually point it out to Christians because they automatically believe it is blasphomy and attack me even though the Bible makes it clear they believe the incorrect intreptatoion which isn't supported by scripture. The difference comes from the heart. I have encountered many Christians that believe they are forgiven, but everyone else is going to Hell. 

[S. Earl Martin]

Jesus said many will say "Lord in thy name I drove out demons and performed miracles. I will answer be gone from me you sowers of iniquity." This is problem with many religions. It is their way or they will kill you or at least condemn you to Hell. They do not love anyone, but themselves when the sign of a changed life is to love everyone. If you have love in your heart and are doing what you can to help those in need? If you are acknowledging God and praising God for who God is? You are doing the will of God and fulfulling the commandments. I have heard Christians when they saw all the outpouring of help that is occuring in Japan both from outside and Japanese helping each other selflessly. Say well to bad it won't help them because they are going to hell. They don't know who these people are. They assume they aren't Christians because they are Japanese. The word says the same measure you use to judge others will be used to judge you. They should be praying for them not condemning them.

[pert -5]

A man hunting birds spread a net on the ground and sprinked it with grain. A group of doves, seeing the grain, flew down into the net and became entangled in it. The man was delighted and came toward the net brandishing his club. The leader of the doves saw that friends were fluttering this way and that, pulling the net in different directions, and only entangling themselves more completely. He said to them: "There is a way out of this tragedy that has befallen us. All of us, working as one, must fly upward into the sky together and far away from here. Once safe, we will work together to untangle ourselves." Eager to save their lives, the doves flew upward and carried away the net, and so were saved. The man seeing this wonder had this thought:

"Because they act in concord, these birds carry off my net; But when they are in discord, then they will become my prey."

- Pañcatantra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchatantra

[pert -5]

Yoga means Union.  Specifically this appeals to the Union between the subject and object of conscious awareness.  One symbolism for this is the physical act of sex where two wills unite to affect a single climax/goal.  Yoga is like sex between the yogi's will and the universe.  One useful device is the act of reducing the contents of the mind to their lowest common denominator.  (Note that I am not saying to 'erase' the contents or whittle them away and be an idiot, that would be absurd.)  The Hermetic Qabalah is extremely helpful in this regard.  Numerous tables of Correspondences have been laid out in various books such as "777", for any interested in this sort of "filing the contents of the mind".

[S. Earl Martin]

very good information. Thanks

[SWM]

Nice info pert,
you mentioned about not becoming stupid when reducing the contents of the mind. i wanted to add, it is possible to quiet the mind such that no thoughts are entering the mind during the process of meditation, at the same time increasing awareness and raising consciousness of the greater reality.

[SWM]

oh and i love this. I would love to get a collection going of these kind of tales and anecdotes.

A man hunting birds spread a net on the ground and sprinked it with grain. A group of doves, seeing the grain, flew down into the net and became entangled in it. The man was delighted and came toward the net brandishing his club. The leader of the doves saw that friends were fluttering this way and that, pulling the net in different directions, and only entangling themselves more completely. He said to them: "There is a way out of this tragedy that has befallen us. All of us, working as one, must fly upward into the sky together and far away from here. Once safe, we will work together to untangle ourselves." Eager to save their lives, the doves flew upward and carried away the net, and so were saved. The man seeing this wonder had this thought:

"Because they act in concord, these birds carry off my net; But when they are in discord, then they will become my prey."

- Pañcatantra

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panchatantra

[pert -5]

oh and i love this. I would love to get a collection going of these kind of tales and anecdotes.

I placed that directly after Earl's reply to underline what he had said.  If each of our four limbs worked against each other, how would the body fare?  We must all work in harmony, like our contemporary avatar for peace John Lennon said:  "All you need is love."  Love is the law, love under will.

"Together we stand, divided we fall."
- Roger Waters




I'll keep on the look out for such stories.