Who believes in GOD?

[liza123]

Do you believe in God? What makes you do so? Are you certain that there is one?

[anaklio]

One of the biggest issues I've had to grow through is atheism. It's not a wise position. A basic rule in science is that you can't prove the absence of something. So while I don't believe in God, there's no reason for me to close my mind. Thus I'm agnostic.

[liza123]

ah..you are the scientist, then...the one who believes in evidence...

how do you explain the timing of birth and death?how do explain the power of prayers?how do you explain miracles?

[seekinghga]

how do you explain the timing of birth and death?

F#$king and fighting.  Aging and medicine work too.

how do explain the power of prayers?

Wishful thinking contingent upon doing the work yourself or waiting for coincidence, with an inherent attitude of superstition and prostration.

how do you explain miracles?

I would have to be given a proper definition for an ambiguous term such as "miracles."


PS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_(mythology)

[seekinghga]

PPS
"A disciple went to his master and said to him, "Sir, I want religion." The master looked at the young man, and did not speak, but only smiled. The young man came every day, and insisted that he wanted religion. But the old man knew better than the young man. One day, when it was very hot, he asked the young man to go to the river with him and take a plunge. The young man plunged in, and the old man followed him and held the young man down under the water by force. After the young man had struggled for a while, the master let him go and asked him what he wanted most while he was under the water. "A breath of air", the disciple answered. "Do you want God in that way? If you do, you will get Him in a moment," said the master. Until you have that thirst, that desire, you cannot get religion, however you may struggle with your intellect, or your books, or your forms. Until that thirst is awakened in you, you are no better than any atheist; only the atheist is sincere, and you are not."
- Swami Vivekananda

[Edit]
http://www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info/vivekananda/volume_2/vol_2_frame.htm

[Enigma]

I do not believe in God.  I have been shown no rational evidence of any type of supernatural creator.  Religion, like knowledge, is a product of the human mind.  Religion is a type of knowledge, because it is the human mind's early attempt at understanding the universe.  However, it is one of those forms of knowledge that turns out not to be true.  I'm not dismissing the fact that there may be some sort of supernatural creator, but the Abrahamic idea of God as some sort of omnipresent peeping tom is utter lunacy.  I'm more interested in Eastern religions, especially Buddhism. 

[seekinghga]

I'm not dismissing the fact that there may be some sort of supernatural creator,

Take out the word "supernatural" and that may help you.  Surely a toothbrush is not "supernatural" (or we may assume so), and a toothbrush would have to be included in omnipresence.

[edit]
Also, I would exchange the word "creator" with the word "source" or "origin."  Some may argue that there is no difference between these words, but the benefit of changing is due to the suggestive nature of the words I have given.  (ie. "creator" sounds too anthropomorphic.)

but the Abrahamic idea of God as some sort of omnipresent peeping tom is utter lunacy.

I agree.  If I may give a quote:
"In the mind of a pious person, the inferiority complex which accounts for his piety compels him to interpret this emancipation as union with the gaseous vertebrate whom he has invented and called God. On the cloudy vapour of his fears his imagination has thrown a vast distorted shadow of himself, and he is duly terrified; and the more he cringes before it, the more the spectre seems to stoop to crush him. People with these ideas will never get to anywhere but Lunatic Asylums and Churches. "

[liza123]

seekingha, Are you still seeking???As Swami Vivekananda said, you need to have the thirst/desire to know GOD/religion...hence, to say that God does not exist without having ever experienced that thirst is contradictory, isn 't it? I am referring to your posts....btw, do not understand f#$ng ..what is that?
 to understand God or miracles, you need to experience them...ever read an article called "man,science and God" published in the scientist magazine some time back...the question of God was discussed as per the viewpoints of Hawkings, Einstein etc..conclusion : there is no denial or acceptance of the word GOD and there was acceptance of a spernatural power(whatever name you want to call) due to a lot of unexplainable mysteries of the universe....

[liza123]

I do not believe in God.  I have been shown no rational evidence of any type of supernatural creator.  Religion, like knowledge, is a product of the human mind.  Religion is a type of knowledge, because it is the human mind's early attempt at understanding the universe.  However, it is one of those forms of knowledge that turns out not to be true.  I'm not dismissing the fact that there may be some sort of supernatural creator, but the Abrahamic idea of God as some sort of omnipresent peeping tom is utter lunacy.  I'm more interested in Eastern religions, especially Buddhism. 

I agree with you on the peeping tom part. I believe in a loving GOD...he is not there to penalise uus but to guide us.He gives us the freedom of choice...the eastern religions like Hinduism(though called a religion) is defined as a way of life. Buddhism as preached by Buddha(who was born into a Hindu family) was started out as a philosophy ..like Confuscious did...

[liza123]

F#$king and fighting.  Aging and medicine work too.

Meaning???are you trying to say that these are the causes and timing of birth and death?how is that people who have lots and lots of...to have a baby do not have one with all the wishful thinking in the world?i have come across such people. then, there are some who use condoms and still end up with a baby...what went wrong with wishful thinking?

What about those who die young when you did not expect such a thing?fighting,no. medicine,no.aging,no....it could be an accident or or even a sudden heart attack or a stray bullet...

Wishful thinking contingent upon doing the work yourself or waiting for coincidence, with an inherent attitude of superstition and prostration.

I would have to be given a proper definition for an ambiguous term such as "miracles."

why call it ambiguous?because you have not experienced it..ask someone who has experienced it and that person will say it is a miracle...

can you explain pain?what is pain?can you explain it?what is suffering?can you explain it so that someone knows it well enough?....you need to experience pain, joy, etc to know what that is...likewise is the subject of GOD, miracle, etc

Does that mean the people who have wishful thinking(the ones who are thinking of death rather than living due to their great miseries!)can have their wishes come true? Or maybe wishing to be a billonaire like Bill Gates?


PS:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_(mythology)

[SWM]

related topic with some of the 'god' issues dicussed further.

http://psychologyforum.us/religion-and-spirituality/the-existence-of-god/

[seekinghga]

Meaning???are you trying to say that these are the causes and timing of birth and death?how is that people who have lots and lots of...to have a baby do not have one with all the wishful thinking in the world?i have come across such people. then, there are some who use condoms and still end up with a baby...what went wrong with wishful thinking?

I would ascribe these things to faulty devices.  In the case of not having the baby it is some defect in the sexual anatomy or the timing.  In the case of having one even with a condom there was a flaw.  If you are saying that God is putting holes in condoms, we would all be in trouble.

What about those who die young when you did not expect such a thing?fighting,no. medicine,no.aging,no....it could be an accident or or even a sudden heart attack or a stray bullet...

Wrong place at the wrong time.  A heart attack could be lack of caring for your self or being born with natural deficiency.  People "black and white" life and death too much anyways.

why call it ambiguous?because you have not experienced it..ask someone who has experienced it and that person will say it is a miracle...

I do so because my idea of a miracle is finding money for a pack of smokes in my couch cushion.  Whereas your idea of a miracle is parting the Red Sea or virgins being impregnated, right?

can you explain pain?what is pain?can you explain it?what is suffering?can you explain it so that someone knows it well enough?....you need to experience pain, joy, etc to know what that is...likewise is the subject of GOD, miracle, etc

Psychological or physical?  Physical pain is a signal from the body that something is wrong.  Psychological pain is the same thing, but on a different level.

Does that mean the people who have wishful thinking can have their wishes come true? Or maybe wishing to be a billonaire like Bill Gates?

They can wish all they want.  If that is your wont, have at it!!

[edit]

(the ones who are thinking of death rather than living due to their great miseries!)

That's funny.  Nice try though!

[seekinghga]

seekingha, Are you still seeking???As Swami Vivekananda said, you need to have the thirst/desire to know GOD/religion...hence, to say that God does not exist without having ever experienced that thirst is contradictory, isn 't it? I am referring to your posts....
 to understand God or miracles, you need to experience them...ever read an article called "man,science and God" published in the scientist magazine some time back...the question of
 God was discussed as per the viewpoints of Hawkings, Einstein etc..conclusion : there is no denial or acceptance of the word GOD and there was acceptance of a spernatural power(whatever name you want to call) due to a lot of unexplainable mysteries of the universe....

My dear, our conflict arises, in this case, due to our incompatible definitions of God.
-----------------------------------------------------------
"The Master, to illustrate this Destruction of the Ego, describes the Visions of Dhyana.

"He further describes the defence of the Soul against assailing Thoughts, and shows that the duality of Consciousness is a blasphemy against the Unity of God; so that even the thought called God is a denial of God-as-He-is-in-Himself. "
("AHA!", The Argumentation)


PS

btw, do not understand f#$ng ..what is that?

"F-U-C-K-I-N-G" is the usual spelling.

[liza123]

seekinghga, condoms are not foolproof...recent studies!and even if GOD put holes in condoms , not ALL are in trouble....the point of my post .. your answer contradicts itself...are you drunk?
pregnancies:sexual anatomy defects and timing?what about people who are not in these categories?ever heard of them? what did you think i was referring to?
who is definition of physical pain is that?yours? something wrong?are you joking?

when some people cannot answer, they come up with some "funny" answers for the sake of doing so...and this reflects on the selves of  the people concerned....

in short, REREAD my posts...

i do not want to waste my time and energy answering something for the sake of answering....the forum is meant for people to learn and reflect in a POSITIVE manner...

great miseries is funny?read about the PEOPLE who prefer death to life in this world and you wont find it funny unless you are heartless!

finally, Swami Vivekananda and Jesus must be crying .....to have their teachings misconstrued!!!

[Enigma]

Nature is God.  That unseen force that shaped our world for an aeon.  That sculpts mountains and oceans, that spawns life and evolves her creatures from single cells into the glorious world we have today.  That to me is God.

[anaklio]

I agree with the nature is god argument. But it also shows that perhaps believers and nonbelievers are not that far apart. Scientists are usually considered nonbelievers. But anyone who appreciates the subtle beauty of our world (i.e., the sublime) in a sense is a believer. At some point, it's just a matter of words.

[seekinghga]

Blessed are Thee o God: Lord of the earth and the heavens, Lord of the ages, Lord of mine Soul.  May I one day rest in Thy bosom, though I deserveth it not.  Man is fret with frailties, and in overcoming these frailties there is Strength.  Thou art that Strength, o God.  May Thine holy Light illumine my way for the rest of my days.  Amen.

[liza123]

Blessed are Thee o God: Lord of the earth and the heavens, Lord of the ages, Lord of mine Soul.  May I one day rest in Thy bosom, though I deserveth it not.  Man is fret with frailties, and in overcoming these frailties there is Strength.  Thou art that Strength, o God.  May Thine holy Light illumine my way for the rest of my days.  Amen.

beautiful verse with a wealth of spiritual meaning, giving us inner strength to overcome obstacles in life....

[saved]

I believe in God and I am a christian.  However, I am very prejudiced against the religious right and many "born agains/fundys".  I find them judgemental, hateful, pro war, and they make a religion out of being anti-abortion and anti gay.  I have also found most so called christians to be incapable of thinking logically. (no offense intended)

[liza123]

I believe in God and I am a christian.  However, I am very prejudiced against the religious right and many "born agains/fundys".  I find them judgemental, hateful, pro war, and they make a religion out of being anti-abortion and anti gay.  I have also found most so called christians to be incapable of thinking logically. (no offense intended)

I do not consider myself to be a religious person...and i have across the religious sort who seem to create more divide among the races and religions than unity....I believe in one God(whatever name you want to call him) and respect other religions

Paths are many but the destination is the same...

[seekinghga]

Paths are many but the destination is the same...

Indeed.  Swami Vivekananda once said:
“As the different streams having their sources in different places all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.”

[liza123]

Indeed.  Swami Vivekananda once said:
“As the different streams having their sources in different places all mingle their water in the sea, so, O Lord, the different paths which men take through different tendencies, various though they appear, crooked or straight, all lead to Thee.”

Well-said." All the fingers are not the same". People have different experiences, tendencies, etc. It is the final destination that truly counts

[anaklio]

Would this be the same as saying it's not what you're given, but what you do with it?

I like that philosophy. Too often I hear "if only I had X, then I'd be happy". Or "I was abused as a child so I can't X". I do not want to belittle people's problems, but we all have to overcome many obstacles.

[seekinghga]

beautiful verse with a wealth of spiritual meaning, giving us inner strength to overcome obstacles in life....

Thanks.  I wrote that thanks to you!!  Thanks liza123.  : P

Would this be the same as saying it's not what you're given, but what you do with it?

That is one way of looking at the situation.  "Every man and every woman is a star."  It is within the divine heritage of every person to find God within themselves.  You can seek "outward" all that you want--good luck.  "Incubo Maya, tracto Maya."

[edit]
Attachment is the forerunner of Sorrow.

[anaklio]

>Attachment is the forerunner of Sorrow.

I agree with this. In my subculture there is a lot of "drama". This means people lying, cheating, stealing, betraying etc. I want to get away from it. That's hard to do because other people are involved and I can only control my own actions. Thus the solution is to remove these people, but only mentally not physically. If I don't let their actions affect me, I am drama free. It's easier said then done, but I'm making progress :-)

[liza123]

>Attachment is the forerunner of Sorrow.

I agree with this. In my subculture there is a lot of "drama". This means people lying, cheating, stealing, betraying etc. I want to get away from it. That's hard to do because other people are involved and I can only control my own actions. Thus the solution is to remove these people, but only mentally not physically. If I don't let their actions affect me, I am drama free. It's easier said then done, but I'm making progress :-)

It is something like "you are attached and yet, you are detached". You are attached in the sense that you have to be part of it and perform your responsibilities but, then, you are detached in the sense that you are not "truly" involved emotionally(you are in control of yourself;you are looking the scenes like an outsider does)

[liza123]

beautiful verse with a wealth of spiritual meaning, giving us inner strength to overcome obstacles in life....
Thanks.  I wrote that thanks to you!!  Thanks liza123.  : P

Wow. You actually wrote all that by yourself. I cannot believe it. I thought that you picked it out of the Bible or something like that.Your star is beginning to shine....

I might have to start asking you for guidance .......

[seekinghga]

>Attachment is the forerunner of Sorrow.

I want to add that that statement is cognate with the Second Noble Truth of the Buddha--though I didn't know that at the time I "discovered" it.  It is important that one understands this principle not only from an intellectual perspective but from a "spiritual"(for lack of a better word) one.  This can be done by experiencing what is known as the Trance of Sorrow (i.e., perceiving the First Noble Truth of the Buddha:  that all is transient).

If anyone is interested then post questions or views in the Buddhism thread--as Buddhism is non-dogmatic and this is a thread about GOD:
http://psychologyforum.us/religion-and-spirituality/is-buddhism-a-psychology-a-philosophy-or-a-world-religion/

If SWM wants to keep that thread solely for his poll then I will create another thread on the philosophies of Buddhism, or he can if he wants.  IF he wants.   ; )

[seekinghga]

Wow. You actually wrote all that by yourself. I cannot believe it. I thought that you picked it out of the Bible or something like that.Your star is beginning to shine....

I might have to start asking you for guidance .......

Please please!  My Ego!  If you feed him once then he'll stick around forever and start living under the porch!!  Then he'll die under there.  Then I'll have to get a shovel.  Ugh, what a mess.
: P

Thanks.  The poetry forum linked in my sig. is no mere decoration either.

[voodoo scientist]

By any standard that has supposedly been communicated by a higher power, regardless of whether the communique in question is the Bible, the Qu'ran or Buddhist philosophy, our world - as measured by the average human's adherence to any given package of rules, is by and large hilariously broken. However, in spite of humanity's failing to live up to any given religious standard for all of recorded history, humanity continues to not only survive, but improve conditions and increase the population of our species.

That leaves only two alternatives regarding God:
* God does exist, but is irrelevant to human existence.
* God does not exist, and is irrelevant to human existence.

Which, of course, leaves only one possible conclusion regarding this thread.