Who believes in GOD?

[seekinghga]

By any standard that has supposedly been communicated by a higher power, regardless of whether the communique in question is the Bible, the Qu'ran or Buddhist philosophy, our world - as measured by the average human's adherence to any given package of rules, is by and large hilariously broken. However, in spite of humanity's failing to live up to any given religious standard for all of recorded history, humanity continues to not only survive, but improve conditions and increase the population of our species.

That leaves only two alternatives regarding God:
* God does exist, but is irrelevant to human existence.
* God does not exist, and is irrelevant to human existence.

Which, of course, leaves only one possible conclusion regarding this thread.

There is Nothing.  Atoms are not tiny balls of "matter" but centers of energy.  Our materialistic universe is comprised of atoms vibrating at certain frequencies and synergies which translate, through our senses, into the material world.  But is not Naught All?  What is there?

[liza123]

By any standard that has supposedly been communicated by a higher power, regardless of whether the communique in question is the Bible, the Qu'ran or Buddhist philosophy, our world - as measured by the average human's adherence to any given package of rules, is by and large hilariously broken. However, in spite of humanity's failing to live up to any given religious standard for all of recorded history, humanity continues to not only survive, but improve conditions and increase the population of our species.

That leaves only two alternatives regarding God:
* God does exist, but is irrelevant to human existence.
* God does not exist, and is irrelevant to human existence.

Which, of course, leaves only one possible conclusion regarding this thread.

1)You blame human failure on GOD. 2)You also make a generalised statement on the failure of ALL human beings with regards to religion etc. 3) You make conclusions on these so-called generalised and very much argumentative statements. 4) You say that GOD is irrelevant to human existence..based on?

[liza123]

voodoo scientist, even the great scientists on Earth like Albert Einstein and others(read the Scientist magazine on Man, Science and God) do not deny the existence of God because they cannot prove it. maybe, you have a voodoo scientific way of doing so....

This thread is meant to provoke thoughts and sharing.....not for making conclusions on generalised statements ESPECIALLY after all the above posts!!!!

[liza123]

Please please!  My Ego!  If you feed him once then he'll stick around forever and start living under the porch!!  Then he'll die under there.  Then I'll have to get a shovel.  Ugh, what a mess.
: P

Thanks.  The poetry forum linked in my sig. is no mere decoration either.

Ha ha ha .Controlling your ego is in "your hands". I was merely complimenting you since you deserved it(ONLY IN THIS CASE MIND YOU!). I have already checked your link here and there....not properly yet

[S. Earl Martin]

Thank you for your concern. I actually have learned to live with the pain. Staying busy and still doing what I can do is a good distraction. Plus if it gets to bad I have pain medication, but it doesn't help the emotional pain though. LOL!
I was on another chat room and I was debating the existence of God with several Atheists. Their belief was in science and they purported that when we die that our life just disappears and dissolves into nothingness. Their evidence was that the body dissolves into dust and disappears so does everything else. I proposed to them this. To sustain life takes a lot of energy. When something dies it is obvious that the energy is no longer there. So were does that energy go? It has to go somewere, it cannot just disappear. Energy is never lost just changed. This put them in a quandary. They debated it amongst themselves and changed their belief to the energy is recycled. This is reincarnation. When I pointed this out they got real defensive. That it still didn't prove the existence of God. Many years ago Delpha and I were having a meeting with a business colleague.  He realized we were Christians. We didn't beat people over the head with our faith, but we didn't hide it either. He said that his mother died and she didn't believe in God. Delpha said without hesitation"well she does now". I can still feel her presence. I can sometimes hear her voice. Not like I am hearing voices etc. More like remembering things she said. I take great comfort in knowing that I will be in Heaven with the ones I love and that this nightmare that we call life will be over. No more pain, no more worry, perfect peace. I have had people tell me they think Heaven will be boring. That Hell will be more exciting. No Heaven will be beyond our imagination. Just to have access to the Acasic records will take forever to explore. We can take part in the creation of new universes or create life. Ask anything in my name and it will be given to you. Oh no I am not afraid of death. On the contray. The greatest adventure awaits. I am not going to do anything to speed up the process, but I won't regret it either. I don't want people to be sad for me. I understand that is part of the human nature to have compasion. I feel for other people who are suffering too. It is like I have been waiting in line to get to Heaven and I am almost to the head of the line. That is a good thing. Peace.
S. Earl Martin

[liza123]

Taken from the thread :
do ghosts-spirits really exist?(reply to S. Earl Martin 's post as written above)

Thank you for your post, S Earl Martin. that is the same question which I asked others. the reaction was basically the same as you received it. sometimes, i go deeper. like, is it just energy that is making us leave/die? what determines the timing of the energy to leave/die? i keep asking questions and somehow or rather, people do get stuck here and there. some time ago, an article was publish in the Scientist magazine called Man, Science and God. the debate was about the existence of the universe involving the opinions and sayings of Stephen Hawkings, Einstein, etc. Guess what...the conclusion was Einstein and even Hawkings(if i am not mistaken) did not deny the existence of God and admitted to the existence of a power beyond (since there were a number of unsolved mysteries and explanations!)...which they could not explain.

Then, there is a book by Readers Digest called "Unexplained". In it,  a lot of the mysteries of the world including religious mysteries were mentioned. Scientist said this and that ...conclusion :they could not explain the religious mysterious. Hence, it became "UNEXPLAINED".

Well, I do feel compassion for your suffering and pain. I am human after all. But, I do not feel sympathy. You have led an interesting life, a rich life in some ways. You are lucky in some ways. There are blessings for you to count!
Keep on posting and sharing 

[S. Earl Martin]

Yes Stephen Hawkings has stated that he believes in intelligent design. That all things must have been created by some form of intelligence. Einstein was a firm believer in God and that is why he tried so hard to find the unified energy theory. Because he wanted to prove that God is in control and that there is an order to the universe. Even Darwin believed in God. That is why he waited so long before he proposed the "theory" of evolution. I believe evolution does exist and is responsible for changes in life over time. If it didn't we couldn't have high breed plants and animals etc. However it is not capable of creating life. Nor is it responsible for all of the effects in nature attributed to it. One of the problems with mankinds knowledge is that we learn something and believe eureka now we know. Then we learn something else that changes what we know and do we say "you know we might have been wrong?" No we still believe we know everything. As long as imperfection exists we will know very little in deed. This is one of the main goals of the D-Text. To give people that are using it a standard of measurement. So they can quantify change as it is taking place and to keep track of what they know, what they think they know, what they don't know and what they can't know. Unfortunately I feel that my work will be like Bullion algebra. This was a form of math proposed back in the 40's or 50's I think. It simplified math and Bullion I am not sure of the spelling of the name, but he designed this thinking it would revolutionize math by simplifying it. No one noticed his work and he died with his dream unfulfilled. Later the age of computers arrives and they needed a math that would be adaptable to bioinary numbers. Bullion algebra to the rescue. I know the potential of the work we did. I have spoken with a number of people with masters degrees that were really impressed by it, but once again I am at a dead end as to how or were to go from here. Oh well another day and I need to get busy with the day to day. Later

[liza123]

Thanks for the information about Einstein, Hawkings and Darwin....I did not know that Einstein and Darwin had strong faith in God.  The speliing for Bullion is correct. You are right. There are many things that were negated previously(to put it mildly!) but, they have been accepted now. One good example was Galileo 's work. Can you more about D-text?Anything on Galileo with regards to his faith in God? I know that he was interested in astronomy.

PS- I met a stranger today. He told me how he was an atheist previously. Refused to believe in God and prayers. He changed after some of the experiences he went through in life(did not ask any details). But, he said that the power of God is really strong and he believes strongly in God after what he went through!

[anaklio]

This is a pretty common experience: people get more religious as they get older. For example, Newton spent his latter years writing more about religion than he ever wrote about science.

This changes from from unexplained life experiences as noted. But it also comes from wanting to "make sense of it all". It is, after all, difficult to live a whole lifetime of pointless existence. We want to find out "Why?".

[S. Earl Martin]

VOODOOScientist: Improve conditions how? We still have poverty and war. We have exploitation of the poor by the rich. We are poisoning our planet and soon we will have mass disease and starvation on a global scale. This isn't only religious fanatics saying this, but scientists. We have proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and a centralization of the power structure and control of the worlds resources, by an elite few. Humans are imperfect and will remain that way until they acknowledge that we are only here because of Divine Providence. That self importance and greed will prevent humans from ever being able to achieve perfection on our own. Choosing to ignore the truth doesn't mean it is not true!

[anaklio]

> That self importance and greed will prevent humans from ever being able to achieve perfection on our own.

A debate I often get into is whether this truth can be overcome. I believe that humans can overcome these limitations, but many of my friends do not.

[S. Earl Martin]

It would be nice if we could and truly there was a time when I was younger I worked very hard to this end, but as I became older and watched time and again when people who were really trying to make a difference and to better society were trampled and crushed under the wheels of stupidity. That I realized the greedy suckers will always win. I have been an environmental activist since the 60's. I look at this scam that is being perported on the world to save the environment and go green. What a joke. It is just another way to exploit the environment and make money. It is not going to have a positive impact on the world it is just a feel good measure. Sorry we had a number of chances to really make a difference to save the environment and we blew it. The changes that would be required to really save our environment would not be adopted because it might inconvenience someone. Our landfills are over flowing and crap is piling up. Not to mention all the nuclear fuel and toxic waste we can't deal with. I have seen photos of square miles of desert in third world countries with drums of toxic chemicals piled on top of each other, some of which are radio active. The area is instant death to anything that approaches it. The drums are corroding and leaking into the water table. I went to work for an environmental testing company. They evaluate toxic sights around the world. I smuggled out photos and reports to friends of mine in the environmental movement. When the company realized what I was doing I was fired. They didn't press charges because if they did the information would have to be admitted in court. Sooner or later the problem will have to be dealt with.

[Enigma]

Theoretically, humans can overcome these limitations.  Realistically, we won't.  To do so would require a global overhaul of current societal and cultural values and norms on a monumental scale.  Not to mention the massive amount of people who's mind's cannot deal with the massive shock of this new world and would react probably violently to any change of their current worldview.  Realistically, it is not possible. 

[anaklio]

I agree it seems unlikely, but it's definitely possible. We have no idea what the future holds for us. Perhaps only a few of us will remain. That small group could establish new dynamics and over repeated tries get it right.

[S. Earl Martin]

There is a belief that is supported by historical records of ancient cultures, that life goes on indefinitely in this area of space. That civilizations grow and die repeatedly. So even if the earth becomes a nuclear fire ball. It may just be a new sun and this area may become a binary star system. We may have planted the seeds of new life on some of the other planets we have sent probes to or possibly visited. A few stray microbes waiting until just the right time to start the whole thing over. Who knows. I know that ancient civilizations had advanced knowledge and they had to have gotten it from somewere. Futher on another level because existence is tied to the speed of light everything is still happening at once somewere so if you travel far enough and fast enough we are still here or there or wherever. Even before I believed in God I knew that there had to be more than just this few years we spend on this ball of mud and water hurling thru space. Even then I kept thinking wait a minute. What's the point? We have to work and slave for what? Just to procreate? No way. I saw the futility of life and thought there has to be something better.  Seeing the inequities and injustice in life only convinced me all the more. I realized that this world was like a ticking bomb and would eventually explode. So I started preparing. My wife and I built a Bio Dynamic farm and prepared to survive the coming turmoil. Now she has died and I am dieing. It wasn't for nothing. My brother lives in the Ozarks and has an isolated ranch there. He will end up with my survival gear. It took thirty years to accumulate all this. I have everything you could need. I could survive anything short of a direct nuclear strike. That was our next goal was to build a bunker to survive that. Oh well trust in God and do good. We all die eventually. It is not when you go, but were you go that matters. It is good sharing info and opinions with you all. Thanks!

[anaklio]

I like the part about the survival gear. My dad always said good things come from hard work even though it's not necessarily in the way you think. Perhaps by being prepared you prevented the need for the stuff?

[S. Earl Martin]

Yeah! You know what they say I would rather have it and not need it. Than need it and not have it. It is like the grasshopper and the ant story. We were very careful with our money and tried to pay cash whenever we could. If not we had excellent credit and would take out a low interest loan. We would make double and triple payments so we could pay it off. I am not really a boastful person, but everything I own I really own. House, land, car, etc. all paid for. My monthly bills are automatically paid by my computer so I don't even have to do that anymore. In this case though the ant dies and the grasshopper gets what the ant has stored. LOL! Oh well I am not dead yet. A lot of people have been praying that I recover. This is for a number of reasons. They do really care about me and it does concern them that I am having to go thru this. Also though I know that many of them thought we were nut's, but now are looking at the state of the world and it is reassuring in some ways that if the world breaks down into anarchy I have a fortified compound and the means to defend it and all they have to do is get here. I have a number of friends that are former military and they are planning to come here if Babylon falls. (See the Revelation to John.) Another reason is that they want me to continue the trainings and research Delpha and I were doing. No matter what happens I know that God is in control and I know were I will end up. It is kinda like watching a horror movie. It might be scary, but you know all the time it will end and were you will be when it is over.
Praise God in the Highest, who was and is and is to come!  

[voodoo scientist]

VOODOOScientist: Improve conditions how? We still have poverty and war. We have exploitation of the poor by the rich. We are poisoning our planet and soon we will have mass disease and starvation on a global scale. This isn't only religious fanatics saying this, but scientists. We have proliferation of weapons of mass destruction and a centralization of the power structure and control of the worlds resources, by an elite few. Humans are imperfect and will remain that way until they acknowledge that we are only here because of Divine Providence. That self importance and greed will prevent humans from ever being able to achieve perfection on our own. Choosing to ignore the truth doesn't mean it is not true!

I'm cool with the way things are, including all the things you mentioned. I don't want a world without danger or challenge or imbalance. I want problems to solve, and I want tomorrow to be a little bit better than today. When God gets off his ass and solves all the world's problems or even just makes some tiny difference on human existence, let me know and I'll get off the "life train" right away, because that's just gonna take all the fun out of living.

You're right: sooner or later, the problems will have to be dealt with. And unlike you, I have full confidence that brilliant members of our species will deal with those problems, rather than simply cry about them. It just won't be you. Don't project your own perceived inability to find solutions onto the rest of mankind - that's just plain arrogant, and I seem to remember "Pride" being on some list I read somewhere, once.

[liza123]

I'm cool with the way things are, including all the things you mentioned. I don't want a world without danger or challenge or imbalance. I want problems to solve, and I want tomorrow to be a little bit better than today. When God gets off his ass and solves all the world's problems or even just makes some tiny difference on human existence, let me know and I'll get off the "life train" right away, because that's just gonna take all the fun out of living.

You're right: sooner or later, the problems will have to be dealt with. And unlike you, I have full confidence that brilliant members of our species will deal with those problems, rather than simply cry about them. It just won't be you. Don't project your own perceived inability to find solutions onto the rest of mankind - that's just plain arrogant, and I seem to remember "Pride" being on some list I read somewhere, once.

Ah!You mentioned God. So, you are a believer. That is good to know. Understand your point about "taking the fun out of living". What would life be if we are always happy?

[voodoo scientist]

Ah!You mentioned God. So, you are a believer. That is good to know. Understand your point about "taking the fun out of living". What would life be if we are always happy?

I consider the question of supernatural existence to be moot, in the most literal sense of the word. It might be more right to say that I don't care about God or any supernatural being more than that I do or don't believe in their existence. They could exist just as well as they could not exist, but they demonstrably have no effect on my existence and thus are unworthy of consideration. Even agnostics care too much about the supernatural for my liking.

[S. Earl Martin]

Voodoo Scientist: Apparently you are still to young and ignorant to realize that a lot of us have spent a life time trying to improve the world and humanity in general just to watch greedy and ignorant people mess it up over and over again. But if you believe that you can overcome Chernobyl, overpopulation, toxic waste dumps, pollution, etc. go ahead. I have already spent 40+ years fighting this battle and just watched as things got worse and worse.
Also if you want to see God working in your life try approaching it as a scientist and look for evidence with an open mind. If you really did that as I did many years ago you would see that God is in everything and is in control. I do not understand why God allows the evil to continue. Or suffering and grief , but I do realize that humans are still little children and can't take care of themselves. Just like yeast in a vat we are soiling our nest and it is beyond are ability to clean it up. They may have improved their technology, but to what end? To become more efficient killers. Maybe we will build space ships and leave this world behind? Look at history. Anytime humans have gone to a "New World". We just brought the same problems and destruction along with us. You think suffering is fun? I am going to Heaven very soon and I will be in a place that will be more fun than anyone can imagine. It won't be just sitting around on a cloud playing a harp. Anything that I ask will be given to me. No more pain. No more suffering. Learning from the creator of the universe forever. What I will be doing is beyond my understanding. However I know it will be Joyous and Miraculous. God doesn't send people to Hell. They chose to go there by their own free will. By refusing to accept the fact that we can not exist on our own without God. Soon a big lie is going to be purported on the world. That everything will be okay if you just accept the number on your hand or forehead. We will see false miracles that will fool many people. I have inadvertently helped to develop the technology that will be used to achieve some of these miracles. I was trying to develop it so it could be used to make things better, but no. The powers that be stole my research and are planing something different than I had planned. Oops! enough on that. Let's just say I have sufficient reason to doubt that humans will use our abilities in a constructive manner. But hey dream on. You think you can accomplish what I and friends of mine spent a lifetime trying to achieve good luck! Seriously I hope you succeed. Far be it for me to squash your dreams. Live long and prosper and may the force be with you!

[voodoo scientist]

Voodoo Scientist: Apparently you are still to young and ignorant to realize that a lot of us have spent a life time trying to improve the world and humanity in general just to watch greedy and ignorant people mess it up over and over again. But if you believe that you can overcome Chernobyl, overpopulation, toxic waste dumps, pollution, etc. go ahead. I have already spent 40+ years fighting this battle and just watched as things got worse and worse.
Also if you want to see God working in your life try approaching it as a scientist and look for evidence with an open mind. If you really did that as I did many years ago you would see that God is in everything and is in control. I do not understand why God allows the evil to continue. Or suffering and grief , but I do realize that humans are still little children and can't take care of themselves. Just like yeast in a vat we are soiling our nest and it is beyond are ability to clean it up. They may have improved their technology, but to what end? To become more efficient killers. Maybe we will build space ships and leave this world behind? Look at history. Anytime humans have gone to a "New World". We just brought the same problems and destruction along with us. You think suffering is fun? I am going to Heaven very soon and I will be in a place that will be more fun than anyone can imagine. It won't be just sitting around on a cloud playing a harp. Anything that I ask will be given to me. No more pain. No more suffering. Learning from the creator of the universe forever. What I will be doing is beyond my understanding. However I know it will be Joyous and Miraculous. God doesn't send people to Hell. They chose to go there by their own free will. By refusing to accept the fact that we can not exist on our own without God. Soon a big lie is going to be purported on the world. That everything will be okay if you just accept the number on your hand or forehead. We will see false miracles that will fool many people. I have inadvertently helped to develop the technology that will be used to achieve some of these miracles. I was trying to develop it so it could be used to make things better, but no. The powers that be stole my research and are planing something different than I had planned. Oops! enough on that. Let's just say I have sufficient reason to doubt that humans will use our abilities in a constructive manner. But hey dream on. You think you can accomplish what I and friends of mine spent a lifetime trying to achieve good luck! Seriously I hope you succeed. Far be it for me to squash your dreams. Live long and prosper and may the force be with you!

There is virtually no actual, concrete content in this post to even respond to. However, since this is such an immense load of nothing, an equally immense content-loaded response must be made, or the very foundations of space-time could rupture.

Assertion One: Voodoo Scientist is young.
Unfortunately, you have no actual basis to go on. I admit to no personal information, nor do I take stances in a way that could indicate any personal characteristics. To make a legitimate argument, you will have to attack my reasoning, not my person.

Assertion Two: Voodoo Scientist can not overcome Chernobyl, overpopulation, toxic waste dumps, pollution, etc.
I never asserted that I could, only that "brilliant members of our species" will. I stand by that assertion, and embolden my position that you are unfairly projecting your own incompetence unto the rest of mankind based on your supporting statement that you have "fought this battle for 40+ years."

Assertion Three: An open, yet scientific mind will allow you to see evidence of God in the world.
No evidence of God provided. Nice science.

Following that, the text is incoherent and makes no assertions one way or the other until

Assertion Four: Humans bring problems and destruction wherever they go:
As the top of the food chain, we change the environment to suit our needs at the expense of everything else. There is no need not to, there exists no evidence that human existence is for the sake of anything but human existence. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt on this assertion, as it is ambiguous and could also mean that human quality of life is going down, not up (which is just crazy).

Assertion Five: S. Earl Martin, notorious forum poster, is going to Heaven soon. "Anything that I ask will be given to me. No more pain. No more suffering," according to a statement from S. Earl Martin's spokesman.
My life's pretty good. Send me a postcard when you get up there, though.

Assertion Six: We can not exist without God.
There are a few billion people without belief in God, who supposedly do exist, that seem to contradict that statement. Or if you mean belief in the supernatural, there are a few million atheists who seem to contradict that. Weren't you talking about scientific evidence like five lines of text ago?

More incoherence and assertion-less ranting.

Assertion Seven: The powers that be stole S. Earl Martin's research.
Good God, this is an outrage. This nameless research could have been used for the benefit of all mankind!
That's too bad. It would have been really nice to have something to be used for the benefit of all mankind.

Assertion Eight: There is adequate reason to believe humans can not use our abilities in a constructive manner.
Present it.

Assertion Nine: Voodoo Scientist can not accomplish what S. Earl Martin and his friends have spent a lifetime trying to achieve.
Well, I could try building on your work (whatever that is!) and do it that way. It's not like science is a zero-sum game where you have to get enough Science Points to invent your idea before you die. Or I could use real science to help me, but the principle's the same.

Assertion Ten: Far be it from S. Earl Martin to squash Voodoo Scientist's dreams.
Thanks. I really appreciate that. It would have been awful if you'd presented a cynical, logical argument that efficiently dispelled my baseless assumptions and assertions for the voodoo they are. My feelings might have gotten hurt.

[S. Earl Martin]

Your Hilarius! You are taking what I said out of context and ignoring and adding context that I obviously never intended. When I said You I didn't mean you literally. You should have realized that. Yes I guess I should have spelled it out more clearly. More accurate language. However again you are ignoring the point. Many times different peoples have tried to build a utopia. Thinking if we can do this or go here all our problems will be solved. It never works. My point is this. Say humans built space ships and did manage to explore space even attempt to colonize other worlds. It would be just the same as when explorers of old colonized "new worlds" here. It won't solve the basic problems that have plagued humans threw out history. Many people I have encountered in my time on this earth believed that humans would leave this planet behind like some garbage dump and move on to another planet or planets. Or that humans would solve all the problems we have and build a utopia here. There was a time I followed the same ideals. I do not doubt that humans "could" use our abilities in a constructive manner and I didn't say otherwise. The fact is they very seldom do. It comes back to greed and self importance. Example: a corporation has something that could help people, but they have to make a profit. They sell it so only certain people can afford it. All the others are left in need and are not helped. That is why the world still has poor and starving people. That is why most of the wealth is controlled by an elite few. There is enough wealth in this world so that humans could end poverty and suffering. Humans could invent devices that would provide clean energy so that all peoples could live in a better standard of living. However as long as you have the survival of the fittest, greedy, competitive, attitude. You will have people who have more than enough and the majority of the people going to bed hungry. Even if humans some how managed to solve many of the other a fore mentioned problems as long as the social structure stays driven by money it impeds any real progress in solving the basic problems that are the root cause of war and famine and disease. If humans want to clean up Chernobyl for example. Who is going to pay for it? Were is profitability in doing it? Were is the incentive? Take nuclear weapons. Say humans decided to destroy all the nuclear weapons on the planet. Who would go first and how would varification of this be acheived? look at all the trouble, time and expense the U.N. had trying to varify the WMD's in Iraq. Now picture that on a global scale. You are long on talk. but short on details of how these things might be accomplished. You apparently are somewhat intellegent. Even though you chose to ignore certain information and misinterpret others. However oh wise one bestow your wisdom on me and tell me how these problems myself and my colleges weren't able to solve will be solved by others in the future? Peace!

[voodoo scientist]

Your fundamental problem is that you think the world should be a nice place for everyone, but the world is only a nice place for organisms who successfully adapt to their environment.

[S. Earl Martin]

No it isn't even a nice place for them. I never said that the world should be a nice place for anyone or anything. I asked you for proof of your assertions and you once again are avoiding the subject. I offered proof and you ignore it claiming evidence to the contray you have yet to elaborate on. This world is not now or ever will be a "nice place" as long as humans exploit it out of selfishness and ignorance. That is my point!!!

[voodoo scientist]

Your assertions are virtually impossible to decipher, and as my previous post illustrates, even if one does take the time to translate them, they make little to no sense. Use more legible formatting and language and I'll hack them apart again, I guess. It's very difficult to follow what you're trying to say when you don't use paragraphs and don't spell out what your points are, and often fail to substantiate (or at least draw a clear link between substantiation and conclusion).

Edit: Just take the last post. What the hell does "exploit it out of selfishness and ignorance" even mean? No offense, but you sound like a doped up soapbox preacher, and I really don't understand what you're trying to say. And do you really think you "offered proof" in your last post? I literally, genuinely, not-even-trying-to-take-a-snipe don't see anything but baseless assertions in there. I half thought you were trying to rile me up.

[S. Earl Martin]

If you really can't understand what I am saying then I see no point in continuing. I have made my point as clear as possible numerous times, but you don't get it. So the problem isn't with my point, but must lye with some in ability on your end. Once again you are avoiding the subject. Using the same diversionary tactic that you used before. Instead of trying to prove your point. What ever that is. You chose to fain an inability to understand mine. Thus avoiding defending your point. As far as hacking apart my assertions again I am still waiting for the first time. Your arguments are so weak and generalized it is pathetic. Why don't you go off somewere and stop being a pain and try being constructive for a change.

[voodoo scientist]

Firsto of all, the burden of communication is always on the sender. If you can't communicate your ideas in a manner the other person can understand (they don't have to agree or disagree, just understand in order to take a stance), you have failed at communicating your point. They have not failed at understanding.

My point is simple: You have no point and are simply writing the type of voodoo talk that sounds "meaningful", but actually conveys no useful information whatsoever. That is why you're unable to concisely state it.

I don't think you do it on purpose, and I don't think you're aware of it. Most likely, you've just always gotten a good response to it, because it does sound very pleasant. I deconstructed your other post in an attempt to show you this and goad you into thinking about your real point, or at least why you say what you say, but clearly I didn't do much good. Most unfortunate.

Now you try being equally concise about your points. And use paragraphs.

[S. Earl Martin]

The burden of communication is "always" on the sender? No! It is a two way street and as I have stated I have made my point abundantly clear. If you have trouble accepting it or understanding it is because of one of several reasons.
One: you don't want to understand it: most likely.
Two: that you don't have the mental capacity or language skills to understand it: least likely.
I am still waiting for you to state your point. All you have done is criticise and belittle mine.
How about something positive if you know so much more than me prove it.

[Enigma]

Your fundamental problem is that you think the world should be a nice place for everyone, but the world is only a nice place for organisms who successfully adapt to their environment.

Truer words have never been spoken.