Dangerous Niece

[daftcow]

My niece is, to an extent, dangerous. She has many different faces and is only nice to certain people. She is 6 years younger than me so we were like sisters when she was growing up. A few months ago she caused a huge bust up in my family. She had been treating me like crap, having a go at me at any opportunity, being totally disrespectful, and then blaming me when it got out. My mum supported me but the rest of the family sided with her, and we were all divided. She had been trying to show how grown up she was and trying to be my equal, when she lacked the maturity and social skills to be my equal. Anyway, i hadg it out with her, telling her that as im her aunt, she WILL respect me. She apologised, but she hasnt changed. Shes sweetness and light to my brother and his wife, and family friends but nasty to my mum and her sisters and I. Her sisters are younger than her.

She also tells lies, to make herself look tough and interesting. But now shes gone too far. She told my boyfriend that her driving instructor has been making suggestive comments and touching her up. I believe she is probably encouraging this as shes never had a boy showing interest but has always shown a slightly unhealthy interest in older men. Shes also not the sort of person to keep quiet if shes uncomfortable. Its a difficult one. If she is telling the truth then obv i want this man dealt with but if im right and shes lying, exaggerating or encouraging him then this man could end up in trouble.

I think shes probably lacking in self-esteem and is unhappy but thats no excuse to treat people the way she does.
Also, how do I broach this? The last time I told my mum what was happening with her treating me like crap, as i said a huge family bust up ensued. Even now my sister (her mum) wont even look my way, which is sad coz my sister and i used to be close. Its all through my niece's lies and big mouth. If you try to advise her or anything it causes ructions. She can paint you black to everyone if she wants, while still looking like an angel. Like i said, shes dangerous. I appreciate I probably havent explained her very well but i can go into more detail if anyone wants me to. Shes just turned 18 by the way, and is due to start uni in Sept.

[ellion]

hi ali
what shall we do with her?

[SWM]

you have a lot of "hot" feelings about this niece of yours, by hot i mean feelings which are likely to create problems in how you and her relate to each other. from your description she has a lot of hot feelings about yourself too.

i am not sure what kind of help you are wanting yet but if i pick up a few things from what you have said and may be we can figure out the rest.

She had been treating me like crap, having a go at me at any opportunity, being totally disrespectful, and then blaming me when it got out.

what does she "have a go" about what is it that she gest upset about?

i had it out with her, telling her that as im her aunt, she WILL respect me.

i am not sure this was the right thing to do. i personally have a problem with people telling me what i WILL do, i would be more likely to lose respect for someone that came and had a go at me and told me i will respect them. i might appologies to avoid a confrontation but this would most likely make me feel worse about that person.

She also tells lies, to make herself look tough and interesting. But now shes gone too far. She told my boyfriend that her driving instructor has been making suggestive comments and touching her up.

this is very dangerous behavior. what kind of relationship does she have with your bf? how come she is discussing things of this nature with him?

I think shes probably lacking in self-esteem and is unhappy but thats no excuse to treat people the way she does.

could you explain a bit more about her self esteem? do you understand what she thinks/feels about herself? do you know what type of negative messages she may be receiving that might reinfore a negative self esteem.

how do I broach this?

take your time she will still be here this time next year, you will still be her aunt and she will still be a nowty teenager.

first off, lets figure out what you want from her, what does she want from you, and what is going wrong in that transaction.

[daftcow]

i wish i could answer all your questions but i cant. She has a go at silly things, like if shes out of order, maybe saying things she shouldnt and someone asks her to stop she goes off on one. She belittles me in company, it verges on bullying, yet if i defend myself it causes a fight. Its very difficult to explain. I dont know why shes saying such things to my bf, they arent close at all, they dont have much of a relationship. My guess it was for attention.

She either makes little effort with her appearence (greasy hair, ill fitting clothes) or makes dramatic changes (once dying her hair bright blue, for example). Shes trying to show how 'adult' she is, drinking too much, she recently got a tattoo, but blatantly lacks the maturity to carry it off. Yes i do love her dearly, but the fued she caused in my family made my mother ill, my poor mum suffered the most and it wasnt her fault My mum, of whom im fiercely protective, doesnt keep well and it made her deteriorate. So i do feel a little angry at my niece even now. My anger is subsiding slowly, and i do talk to her sometimes but i am taking it one day at a time.

Her problem is that she thinks she knows it all. She refuses to take advice from anyone and it lands her in trouble because she wont let anyone guide her. Shes caused family feuds in her own home coz she doesnt know when to just keep quiet. She is very immature for her age and constantly wants to prove how 'tough' she is. Everything has to be a fight with her. She does has good qualities but, as i explained, only shows them to her chosen few. Its sad because her and me used to be close, then she changed. She doesnt have many friends but i cant tell whether its because of her behaviour or her behaviour is coz she lacks friends. My guess would be the former because i have always been aware of this dark side to her personality, its just becoming the even more dominant side as she gets older. Her attitude screams 'I am a big grown up i can do what i want', she just doesnt realise how much she lacks the maturity.

[cognitive]

wow, she is dangerous indeed ,I know from my own experience with an adolescent of her age in our family.
She used to tell lies about her close family ,making them look like they were sort of monsters or something ,she run away from home and stayed with her friends .
She stopped only her folks finally began to tell ugly things about her ,too.She was shocked at first they did that ,but she experienced herself how is that having your own family spreading bad rumors about you .
She got her lesson on " you reap what you saw" , she came to her family and apologized,moved back with them and now they have a good relationship.

[daftcow]

wow, she is dangerous indeed ,I know from my own experience with an adolescent of her age in our family.
She used to tell lies about her close family ,making them look like they were sort of monsters or something ,she run away from home and stayed with her friends .
She stopped only her folks finally began to tell ugly things about her ,too.She was shocked at first they did that ,but she experienced herself how is that having your own family spreading bad rumors about you .
She got her lesson on " you reap what you saw" , she came to her family and apologized,moved back with them and now they have a good relationship.

I'm glad thigs worked out.  Unfortunately my sister, her mum, covers for her.  Surely she must see through her, but she covers for her.

An update...my mum confronted her and asked her about the instructor, telling her he could lose his job and that if she needed to talk she could talk to any of us, but my niece sneered "I just told him to BOLT and its dealt with"... mum said she could tell my niece was blatantly lying.  Whats so sick about this is her younger sister was sexually assaulted by a boy the year above her in school and was distraught, i work in the school so i was interviewed and my sister and her husband went to town with the whole situation.  if my niece had told my sister about the driving instructor, which she claims to have done, her husband would have already beaten the guy up etc.  How can she lie about such thing after what her little sister went through?

My brother, her uncle, is even making excuses for her because she doesnt show him her true colours.

[SWM]

@ali

while i understand the frustration this behavior is causing for you, part of me really feels for your niece, i dont know the full story but i imagine her life is very difficult. there seems to be a lot of people offering direction to this young girl who is desperetley wanting to take back control of her own life. she is obviously not mature enough to make reasonable decisions and is stil playing childish games but this part of the transition from adolescence to adult.

from the things you have described i can see that your niece has a very strong spirit. unfortunatley she is acting out more form the darker side of her nature and she is doing so with this same strengh of spirit.

she is doing so due to the environment she is in. without placing blame anywhere or taking responsibility for her behavior away from her, there are significant social and psychological pressures in here environment that are causing here to behave in this way in order to protect her sense of self during her individuation and transition from child to adult.

[daftcow]

hi stan,

While i understand where youre coming from I have to say I disagree. No one is trying to control her life, she very much does her own thing. When I mentioned people offering guidance i didnt mean it to sound like they were pressuring her. However, i do feel she is confused because her parents give her mixd signals. For example, she has been allowed to drink alcohol since she was 15. She then thought she was an an adult, but her parents were still treating her like a child in other ways. She doesnt know where she stands.

I dont mean to sound cold but I am past feeling sorry for her. I treated her like my best friend and she threw it at me, i was aware she had no friends so i introduced her to mine and invited her places, she threw that in my face. She treats people like dirt and i dont think theres an excuse. I feel far more sympathy for this poor driving instructor.

Also, she is 18, she needs to be able to stand on her own two feet, she is far far less mature than the rest of her peer group. Her sisters are actually more mature. My sister, its fair to say has been a lazy parent. It was easier for her to cover her daughters tracks than nip things in the bud. She has been given nothing but love and support from her family, granted her parents could have done better though. I used to feel sorry for her but not anymore, especially because she picks and chooses her victims. There are certain people she has thinking shes sweetness and light.

[cognitive]

An update...my mum confronted her and asked her about the instructor, telling her he could lose his job and that if she needed to talk she could talk to any of us, but my niece sneered "I just told him to BOLT and its dealt with"... mum said she could tell my niece was blatantly lying.  Whats so sick about this is her younger sister was sexually assaulted by a boy the year above her in school and was distraught, i work in the school so i was interviewed and my sister and her husband went to town with the whole situation.  if my niece had told my sister about the driving instructor, which she claims to have done, her husband would have already beaten the guy up etc.  How can she lie about such thing after what her little sister went through?

My brother, her uncle, is even making excuses for her because she doesnt show him her true colours.

I have the feeling that she is lying ,too .
It's only a supposition, but in her sister 's experience she may have seen something different that normal people see , I mean she didn't see that her sister was abused , but that she was so badly wanted by a boy that he resorted to violence to have her . This abnormal thoughts may have made her jealous on her sister 's  power to attract men and probably she wanted to demonstrate (especially to male figures in her family) that she may be wanted by men in that way, too.
 If this is the case - which I cannot say is for sure, is just a supposition that only her psychotherapist might confirm or not- she may have low self esteem .
It is possible that she didn't get enough attention from her father or maybe she lives with the impression that her younger sister became her father's preferred since the moment she was abused .
I think both sisters need to see a therapist .

[SWM]

@ali

i dont want to push this with you anymore, i know you are not comfortable with people defending this girl and i dont want to be percieved as taking sides or defending anyone.

instead if you would like i would try to work out some solutions with you.

@cognitive
i kind of agree with this view that you put forward. also the behaviour with ali's boyfriend may be further evidence of seeking attention of males in in appropriately.

[daftcow]

@ Cognitive, I totally agree with you. At the time of the assault my niece was going on about how she was going to beat the boy up for doing that to her little sister. Of course, she didnt do anything of the sort. Her low-self esteem is very obvious in the way she behaves in everything. She does try to gain mens attention, especially older men, being overly friendly. Maybe she feels that she can only attract men who are older, which worries me because as much as she angers me, and as i said i am past the stage of feeling sympathy for her, i still love her to bits and im afraid some older man could take advantage, especially if she was drunk (she drinks far too much which i suppose could be said about a lot of people her age).
She has always been close to both her parents, her dad just adores all his girls. He can be a bit harsh sometimes but he makes sure his girls (my sister, his wife included), get the best of everything and spends as much time as he can with them.

She definitely needs therapy, but i doubt she would seek help because she convinces herself she is fine. Im not sure she is aware how dangerous her behaviour actually is. Ive told her a million times im there for her and, due to my job, i am well equipt in skill and can access a sea of resources to help. But she has to want to get help. Her own sthubborness could be to blame because shes convinced she knows it all, she cant listen to anyone. I even gave her a book which helped me a lot and I follow it like a religion. Its not a self help book as such, its more a way of life. She read it and then threw it at me, belittling everything that I believe in it. Maybe she isnt ready. I would like to try to rebuild some bridges but, im sure you can understand, i need to protect my family, especially mum who has been through enough already, i dont want to risk another family feud and to be honest i dont trust her. As ive said she has many faces for different people. Who knows whch one i will get?

[Schizo]

A few questions....

 
What are your beliefs in conduct, morals, etc?
      You, your family, and her may be coming from different positions.

What type of appearance does she have i.e. body size, etc?
       

Is there any religious variances between you and her?
 

Do you feel she focuses more on you than anyone else?


How does she feel about your boyfriend?


Are you positive she acts this way around everyone, minus a select few? 


Who are the select few?




Anyways.....     I am just trying to gain a more insightful picture of the whole scenario.

There are always multiple facts behind every action and reaction....

[daftcow]

Hi Schizo,

Thanks for posting, sorry I havent replied sooner, I havent been online for a while.

My personal beliefs in conduct and morals?  I believe you should try to treat everyone else they way you wish to be treated yourself.  I believe that while you should always try to stand up for yourself that you should try to do so in an assertive manner, rather than aggressive.  It is important to stand up for your own rights without belitting the rights of others. 

She is short and really plump.  I'm a rather big lady myself but I do make an effort, shower every day, hair brushed, and I try to wear nice clothes.  She doesnt do any of this and her sister will tell you that she actually smells.  She doesnt wash often enough.

There are no religious variences at all between me and her and I do feel she focuses on me more than anyone else.  It feels like she is sharpening her teeth and claws on me.  She does it to my mum too.  She is lovely to my brother and his wife, and to people outside the home.  I know she treats her two younger sisters badly too and is even violent towards them.

As for how she feels about my boyfriend,  they have never been close and I am not aware of any friendship between them.  He teels me everything anyway so I'm guessing I would know of one if there was anything.  They rarely see each other and dont talk much.

Any thoughts?

Alison

A few questions....

 
What are your beliefs in conduct, morals, etc?
      You, your family, and her may be coming from different positions.

What type of appearance does she have i.e. body size, etc?
       

Is there any religious variances between you and her?
 

Do you feel she focuses more on you than anyone else?


How does she feel about your boyfriend?


Are you positive she acts this way around everyone, minus a select few? 


Who are the select few?




Anyways.....     I am just trying to gain a more insightful picture of the whole scenario.

There are always multiple facts behind every action and reaction....