New age internet relationships - a discussion

[ozziemate]

A thread running by another poster inspired this posting.

New age internet relationships are obviously springing up every where and no doubt are causing interest in the general media [ esecially when something goes wrong ] and also amongst regular users of the net for entertainment and community.

With the advent of web cameras these relationships have taken a rather dramatic evolutionary course and I wondered if there would be benefit in discussing the underlying psychology that drives this relatively recent phenonema?
Most of course is driven fundamentally by the isolation and lonelinesss that we feel as individuals [even when involved in long term relationships]

Please avoid explict detail and keep it professional as I am sure the moderators will delete any offensive material.
Suffice to say auto eroticism and "physically shared relationships" are becoming more and more confused...IMO

Care to discuss?

[Enigma]

My internet relationships were driven by loneliness.  I was a weird kid, introverted, didn't relate to my peers very well.  However, I found friends on the internet and in video games, mainly in forums like this one.  Wasn't really a bad thing, I still keep in touch with some of my internet friends to this day.  I've also had the chance to meet people from all over the world, which has definitely helped shape my current perceptions of life.  I grew up on the web, I'm a true child of the internet generation.

The problems start when people use internet relationships as a substitute for real interpersonal relationships.  People can waste too much emotional energy in internet relationships, especially ones sexual in nature.  When using the internet, it is very easy to create an idealized image out of a person, a wish image if you will.  You end up seeing a person for who you want them to be, not for who they really are.

[SWM]

New age internet relationships are obviously springing up every where and no doubt are causing interest in the general media [ esecially when something goes wrong ] and also amongst regular users of the net for entertainment and community.

With the advent of web cameras these relationships have taken a rather dramatic evolutionary course and I wondered if there would be benefit in discussing the underlying psychology that drives this relatively recent phenonema?

i am sure there is a lot yet to be learned about internet relationships, how they develop and why so many people engage in this way of relating.[/quote]

Most of course is driven fundamentally by the isolation and lonelinesss that we feel as individuals [even when involved in long term relationships]

i would agree with this, although not every body is lonely and isolated. the motivation to connect and relate and interact with people is deeply seated in the human psyche. our sense of belonging and our sense of self are forged by our experiences and interactions with other beings (i say beings to acknowledge the role of animals in human relationships)

so, i think the internet and online social networks are an extension of this aspect of human nature, we have found new ways to reach out to other beings (those with the ability to tap the keyboard into legible language) and to connect and relate, to share experience and opinion and to attempt fulfilment of the numerous desires that pertuate this human existence.

Please avoid explict detail and keep it professional as I am sure the moderators will delete any offensive material.

indeed, we dont take offense to language itself, but when langauge is used gratuitously or intentionally used to offend.

Care to discuss?

yes

[ozziemate]

thanks for your comments.

I am reminded of a discussion I had with a lady about 5000kms away in the same country as I am in.
Her husband worked on 3 monthly off shore shifts at an oil rig approximately 1000 kms from their family home.
Apparently she maintained 3 or 4 internet relationships with "other men" to compete with loneliness and isolation from her partner and he also maintains a number of internet relationships [ of an intimate kind] with other women.
They do this whilst also maintaining an online relationship with each other whilst he is away on of shore duty at the rig.

Both have agreeed to this arrangement on the one condition that if either wished to meet up with their online friends that they would do it together as husband and wife.
Now what differentiates this situation form a usual reality based open relationship is that it uses the internet [virtual/reality based] and all it's facilitation [ web cameras, chat, etc ] to relieve their individual sense of isolation and fantasy needs whilst the other partner is unavailable.

It is interesting that relationships appear to be heading in this direction as people are drawing greater distinction between virtual pseudo auto eroticism and physically shared relationships.
As to the long term success of these developments one can only wonder.

However to ignore them as an evolutionary trend would be quite futile I would think.

[SWM]

for me it shows that the social networks and online life is opening up new possibilities for relationships. your story validates this idea for me. in the sense that men would, generaly speaking, seek out more partners for intimate relations and women would like top be courted, to have men chasing them. this has always been the case in our culture but now we have a more convenient way to do this.

it used to be the case that in order to meet potential partners (or friends, sex friends even, or whatever..) people had to use a little more initiative, setting up dating networks, getting involved in swinging parties.

i suppose then what our new technology does for us is take away the hard work, allows us to screen potential mates much faster, dump disasters less messily and arrange secret rendevouse more easily.

one question might be: what have we lost or what are we losing in this new age relating game?

[ozziemate]

Yet interestingly enough we seem to have a "pandemic" of depressive type conditions present in western societies even with the extension to social life due to the advent of online relationships.
Possibly like most auto erotic outcomes, loneliness can actually be exasperated due to the "want it for real and not just virtual" craving that auto eroticism seems to inspire.

It is hard from a human behavourist pov, to determine whether online relationships are more a extended form of auto eroticism or something more significant.
At the moment I am tending towards the auto erotic tag as anonymity is strongly involved. Once anonymity is no longer present then the relationship tends to loose it's auto erotic only nature IMO.
Anonymity of course affords many benefits but also many not so positive outcomes as well.

To me this an area of great interest as it exposes a huge area of human psychology never before seen in such clarity before. [undertstanding it all may prove quite a challenge I think]

one question might be: what have we lost or what are we losing in this new age relating game?

For most people the distinction between virtual and real is always hard to maintain and the use of internet relationships makes this challenge even more pronounced.

Ultimately this could mean that the global population is learning to maintain this distinction, so even though there may be an immediate loss for some on the whole there should be a greater ability to distiguish virtual and reality develope over time.

The entertainment industry is moving constantly towards virtual interactive amusements as seen wth video games, interactive DVDs and 3 d holographic tech. and other similar type technologies. Mobile phones of course are providing great amusement for many and so on.
So the need to maintain the ability to make the "virtual and reality" distinction is being tested quite strongly. IMO

[SWM]

just to clarify for pupose of the discussion

what do you define as auto eroticism and how do you understand its operation in online relationships?

[ozziemate]

An interesting question and one with many answers I would assume, however the definition I am applying is self erotic indulgence such as demonstrated by eating, watching movies, walking along a beach or in a general sense anything that gives the individual pleasure. True this is a broard defintion and specifically regarding the issue at hand we are discussing auto eroticism of a self-sexual, loving nature....as online relationships by their very nature prohibit physical contact or shared sexual exchanges thus virtual and fantasy only.

I am not convinced that this is a thorough assessment hence this thread I guess.....

[SWM]

An interesting question and one with many answers I would assume, however the definition I am applying is self erotic indulgence such as demonstrated by eating, watching movies, walking along a beach or in a general sense anything that gives the individual pleasure. True this is a broard defintion and specifically regarding the issue at hand we are discussing auto eroticism of a self-sexual, loving nature....as online relationships by their very nature prohibit physical contact or shared sexual exchanges thus virtual and fantasy only.

I am not convinced that this is a thorough assessment hence this thread I guess.....

when thinking about online relationships, i was not really thinking of auto erotic relationships per se. not that i was excluding this but i was not thinking in of this particularly. i see online relationships in a broader context.

did you want to discuss sexual relationships in particular.

[ozziemate]

...... i see online relationships in a broader context.

care to elaborate?
as your earlier post suggest we are indeed talking about the same thing...

for me it shows that the social networks and online life is opening up new possibilities for relationships. your story validates this idea for me. in the sense that men would, generaly speaking, seek out more partners for intimate relations and women would like to be courted, to have men chasing them. this has always been the case in our culture but now we have a more convenient way to do this.

it used to be the case that in order to meet potential partners (or friends, sex friends even, or whatever..) people had to use a little more initiative, setting up dating networks, getting involved in swinging parties.

i suppose then what our new technology does for us is take away the hard work, allows us to screen potential mates much faster, dump disasters less messily and arrange secret rendevouse more easily.

one question might be: what have we lost or what are we losing in this new age relating game?

Of course there are many varieties of net relationships, an example being this forum.

But the thread is specifically focussed on internet relationships of a more intimate kind I guess.

all in the definition of terms as well I think.

did you want to discuss sexual relationships in particular.

Nope, but "cyber" sexual relations would have to be part of the picture to make reference to the opening post.

[naturevnurture]

Hi in my humble opinion internet relationships are bridging the gap that society doesn't. Communities are breaking down,neighbours don't associate with each other - gone are the days of extended families living in close proximity and 'everyone knowing everyone'. Humans are spreading their wings and travelling more the place you spend your childhood is not always the place were you bring your own kids up and spend your life. The dynamics of family life have changed also, parents have to work more and children more often than not don't have positive role models. All this leads to social isolation for many and the internet steps in with its 'communities'. Also the appeal of anominity (is that spelt right?......ahhh i wish i could spell!!) is too good to ignore for some. I guess the wider effects of this 'new phenonmena' have yet to be seen or observed. 

[ozziemate]

I suppose one could say that the internet provides a quick fix to social issues instead of providing sooutions to the issues you raise such as isolation, heavy work demands due to our consumerism going crazy.
ahh But such is the nature of the modern world, "too hard to fix but maybe this solution may help" sort of thing.

There is no doubt that the internet can be seen as a social communication band-aid but by the same token it is obviously a major part of our social future as the world gets smaller and yet bigger simultaneously. 

Of course as a way of coping with isolation there is no doubt of it's benfits, but I wonder if this coping strategy means that we shall never have the opportuntity to rectify why it was needed to begin with?

New age Net relationships, soon to be so entrenched as a global lifestyle as it were..

[SWM]

care to elaborate?
as your earlier post suggest we are indeed talking about the same thing...
 

Of course there are many varieties of net relationships, an example being this forum.

But the thread is specifically focussed on internet relationships of a more intimate kind I guess.

all in the definition of terms as well I think.
Nope, but "cyber" sexual relations would have to be part of the picture to make reference to the opening post.

when refering  to a broader context i mean that human realtionships including internet relationships are not confined to those seeking sexual gratification. such relationships are present throughout society and of course the internet in fact those seeking sexual gratifiaction permeat all other types of relationship and often to the detriment of the social and professional relationships.

i suppose that while i did indeed use examples of sexual relationships in my above post i was actually not thinking of the discussion restricted to just relationships of a sexual nature.

[ozziemate]

when refering  to a broader context i mean that human realtionships including internet relationships are not confined to those seeking sexual gratification. such relationships are present throughout society and of course the internet in fact those seeking sexual gratifiaction permeat all other types of relationship and often to the detriment of the social and professional relationships.

i suppose that while i did indeed use examples of sexual relationships in my above post i was actually not thinking of the discussion restricted to just relationships of a sexual nature.

But of course this is a valid point and valuable to the discussion. IMO. Possibly the thread OP leads one to think that I may have over emphasised on the Auto erotic nature of most net relationships and one may wish to offer ways of mitigating that emphasis ...perhaps...

However be this as it may, the thread was originally proposed to discuss new age net relationships that involve intimacy of a sexual nature.
Case Study:
overview:
"Josephine" starts to realise changes in her husbands behaviour about 6 months before she discovers he has been having net affairs via a certain web porthole. He started to get body piecings and wearing clothes more befitting a younger generation.
After discovering his extra marital activities and various disguised credit card payments he invited her to join what he considered as fun and inconsequencial, to which her response was to decline by way of immediate separation and divorce.

3 years later she is herself involved in net relationships....

The above is fairly typical from what I have seen although the result is not always so dramatic.

The redefining of "relationship" or "trust", betrayal issues come to the for. As society moves into the 21st century.

[DarkPoet]

I was part of a 3-year internet relationship with someone 3,000 miles away. I think the psychology of it is, if you love someone you are loyal and stick with them through whatever, even if that means having to wait and be patient.

I have to wait 5 months to see the person I love again, not as bad as 3 years but distance is never fun. *shrugs*

[liza123]

I tried internet relationships or dating or getting to know someone before. I never made friends, only have bad memories. They simply lied about their age and other details. I actually met a few of them personally and they are very different from the image they projected through the internet. so, I have given up on making friends or dating through the internet for now.

But, I enjoy particpating in forums and have learned much through them. I actually made 'anonymous' friends

[liza123]

My internet relationships were driven by loneliness.  I was a weird kid, introverted, didn't relate to my peers very well.  However, I found friends on the internet and in video games, mainly in forums like this one.  Wasn't really a bad thing, I still keep in touch with some of my internet friends to this day.  I've also had the chance to meet people from all over the world, which has definitely helped shape my current perceptions of life.  I grew up on the web, I'm a true child of the internet generation.

The problems start when people use internet relationships as a substitute for real interpersonal relationships.  People can waste too much emotional energy in internet relationships, especially ones sexual in nature.  When using the internet, it is very easy to create an idealized image out of a person, a wish image if you will.  You end up seeing a person for who you want them to be, not for who they really are.

That is one of the best parts of internet relationships, exchanging views with people from all over the world(it is really cheap compared to travelling!).  When it comes to internet relationships, I know of people who invested their emotional energy and found the love of their lives, a number of them. In truth, the imagiing part occurs even when you are 'dating' a person. People tend to be oother than their actual selves. Of course, the argument could be that it is to a lesser degree than the internet.

[liza123]

Hi in my humble opinion internet relationships are bridging the gap that society doesn't. Communities are breaking down,neighbours don't associate with each other - gone are the days of extended families living in close proximity and 'everyone knowing everyone'. Humans are spreading their wings and travelling more the place you spend your childhood is not always the place were you bring your own kids up and spend your life. The dynamics of family life have changed also, parents have to work more and children more often than not don't have positive role models. All this leads to social isolation for many and the internet steps in with its 'communities'. Also the appeal of anominity (is that spelt right?......ahhh i wish i could spell!!) is too good to ignore for some. I guess the wider effects of this 'new phenonmena' have yet to be seen or observed. 

You have a valid point here. Sometimes, people use social networking sites like Facebook to keep in touch with their friends and relatives and to make new friends. It seems faster and easier...the new age revolution. It is anonymity, not anominity but, it does not matter, we understand your meaning. Yes, indeed the appeal of being anonymous is one of the 'pull' factors for internet relationships.

[ozziemate]

One thing that has come to mind since starting this thread was that it appears that people are allowing themselves creative freedom that they never had before. In regards to relationships it is quite common fro example that one partner can now express their so called "fantasy infidelity" insted of keeping it to them selves. So in a sense they are only expressing that which has been kept secret from their partner. The desire to have virtual and safe relationships of a flirtatious and sexual nature with out actually performing an act of betrayal due to the anonymity factor.


So the question remains:
Does cheating on your partner on-line anonymously amount to actual cheating or is it just virtual cheating instead?

One can imagine how the wedding vows will change to reflect new age relationships.

[liza123]

For me, it still amounts to cheating. Although there was no 'act' but, the 'thought' was there. In truth, a seed was planted....just my opinion

[ozziemate]

Let me ask you these questions then if I may?

1] If you are a writer writing a novel that involves a highly erotic encounter does this creativity amount to infidelity if said writer is supposedly happilly married?
2] If you are reading a novel or other such literature and find them sexually arrousing is this an act of betrayal?

The obvious answer would normally be nope! However you would be suprised what attitudes exist out there.

The key though I think is that normally erotic fantasy is OK as long as it involves no real and living person. For example animated cartoon erotica is considered as no problemo as long as the cartoons do not depict a real or living person.

Internet relationships blur the distinction I think between a fantasy figure and a real one, making the real person a fantasy figure or vica versa. Hence we have what potentially could be seen as both OK on one hand yet an act of cheating on the other...as a woman [ I presume] what do you think?

[Karaten]

Let me ask you these questions then if I may?

1] If you are a writer writing a novel that involves a highly erotic encounter does this creativity amount to infidelity if said writer is supposedly happilly married?
2] If you are reading a novel or other such literature and find them sexually arrousing is this an act of betrayal?

The obvious answer would normally be nope! However you would be suprised what attitudes exist out there.

The key though I think is that normally erotic fantasy is OK as long as it involves no real and living person. For example animated cartoon erotica is considered as no problemo as long as the cartoons do not depict a real or living person.

Internet relationships blur the distinction I think between a fantasy figure and a real one, making the real person a fantasy figure or vica versa. Hence we have what potentially could be seen as both OK on one hand yet an act of cheating on the other...as a woman [ I presume] what do you think?

The difference being that this is an intimate act with another person, rather than a lone act with a book.

[SWM]

For me, it still amounts to cheating. Although there was no 'act' but, the 'thought' was there. In truth, a seed was planted....just my opinion

cheating in a context such as this could only happen if their where rules implicit or explicit that state "one must not hold thoughts of a sexual nature about other people"

the fact that youwould consider such to be cheating suggest that you has set those rules for yourself.

it would be very easy to feel guilty a lot of the time with such rules to live by. (well for me, i would likely spend most of my days breaking my own rules and feeling guilty if i had these rules to live by)

[ozziemate]

I think possibly there is a need to define "internet relationship".
possibly.....

1] Those that wish only to converse and make plutonic friendships.
2] Those that want a friendships and erotic encounter that have no plan to actually meet. [ essentially auto erotic sharing]
3] Those that are looking for a real life partner.
and more no doubt....
any other variations?

[liza123]

1] If you are a writer writing a novel that involves a highly erotic encounter does this creativity amount to infidelity if said writer is supposedly happilly married?
2] If you are reading a novel or other such literature and find them sexually arrousing is this an act of betrayal?



Precisely. It is a fantasy figure, the sexual erotica itself is a sexual fantasy(that is OK, who knows, you may get ideas from the author to improve your sexual relationship , the same goes with the author).

You should not presume I am a woman, ask me first. But, it so happens that I am . With regards to internet relationships, it is not a sexual fantasy with an imaginary figure. You are actually having some sort of relationship with another person, the ghost is not surfing the intenet, it is a human being. Hence, my comment that the 'seed' is planted. Something like telesex?

[Karaten]

There's only one kind of relationship for me. I don't make friends.

[liza123]

For me, it still amounts to cheating. Although there was no 'act' but, the 'thought' was there. In truth, a seed was planted....just my opinion

cheating in a context such as this could only happen if their where rules implicit or explicit that state "one must not hold thoughts of a sexual nature about other people"

the fact that youwould consider such to be cheating suggest that you has set those rules for yourself.

it would be very easy to feel guilty a lot of the time with such rules to live by. (well for me, i would likely spend most of my days breaking my own rules and feeling guilty if i had these rules to live by)

oh, well, SWM, as i said, that is my opinion. for me, loyalty means that it should include thoughts as well. there is a saying, as we think, we tend to act. so, there is a higher chance of being disloyal. it is a famous theory in books called 'law of attraction' and whatnot. so, for me, the best thing is that you do not even think about it once you are married

[Karaten]

I agree Liza.

[liza123]

There's only one kind of relationship for me. I don't make friends.

Too bad. I have already taken you as my friend. I find some of your posts interesting and amusing. They give me a chance to look at things from a different perspective and to learn more about people. 

[Mello-kun]

I've been pretty much against internet relationships, but only because of the amount of hurt they can cause for the people involved. You never know if you can trust the other to be loyal to you, and lack of trust can affect the relationship.
However, I am currently in one of my own :S to a girl who lives about 5 hours away from me. We have never met, but we wish to. I don't try and be somebody I'm not when I talk to her, and I hope she doesn't to me.