Pre-marriage ongoing issue

[Drewau2005]

Hello, thank- you for the forum. I wonder if people have some thoughts/suggestions on my  situation? My finacee and I have been going out for around 9 months and we have been very close. Two weeks ago I asked her to marry me and presented her with a stunning diamond ring. She said, “yes”, so far so good. However over our relationship there has been one thing that has caused me angst and it keeps coming back. That thing is her inability and or unwillingness to pay for anything. Don’t get me wrong, I am not mercenary and far from a miser but I am somewhat aggrieved by her expectation that I pay for everything. The situation has been compounded of late by her losing her job and a number of debts (read tens of thousands of dollars) from her previous relationship, where her boyfriend left without paying his share. Things came to a head last week when I received a text message from her out of the blue saying  I had agreed to pay for her wedding dress two months ago and it was ready and please confirm, the message had a kiss on the end of it. As way of background, two months ago she lost her job and was upset about paying for the dress. I said if you couldn’t pay don’t worry I will take care of it. So I did agree, but what aggrieved me was this message came without warning, not even via a telephone call and in the intervening two months I have paid for a pair of glasses for her and she had a car accident in my car for which I had to pay the excess.  Also there have been numerous dinners etc. She has literally not paid for a cup of coffee for me in this time, although she has bought the odd chocolate bar. Last week we were going to visit friends of her which was a long drive away, I thought she was getting ready and then she yelled that she was in the car, he tone was quite abrupt. She left the front door open and my dog ran up the street, granted she didn’t know the dog was in the front of the house, but she was in the car and not everything we needed to take did she have. She decided we were late, so we had to go. I became annoyed and drove off quickly which caused the cake she was holding on her lap to collapse, not by design but by accident. When we got to the friends we argued before we went in and the night, was strained. I had more to drink then I normally do (I am not a drinker) and became maudlin which was a bit embarrassing. We ended staying over (we are not sleeping together) and in the morning we argued on the way home. I have apologised for my behaviour since but the underlying problem is still there. She has said rather than get another job she could get the house ready for when we are married but I am not keen on that and have asked if she can keep working to at least pay down the debt. In the course of this argument she said she had been honest with her financial situation and if she keeps working, we will not be able to have children for a year. But she could work until she becomes pregnant. Even when she had a job she hardly paid for anything but she bought shoes here and there. I don’t want much just a sign. I have booked and paid for our wedding overseas which has cost me a lot. I feel there is a barrier over this but we do love each other and are respectful. What can we do? Everytime I bring it up she is really defensive saying , ‘you can’t afford a wife etc etc’. I have a good job and work hard I just want some progress.
Thanks for your thoughts
Drew.

[SWM]

Hello, thank- you for the forum. I wonder if people have some thoughts/suggestions on my  situation? My finacee and I have been going out for around 9 months and we have been very close. Two weeks ago I asked her to marry me and presented her with a stunning diamond ring. She said, “yes”, so far so good.

hi drew welcome to the forum

from your message i read that your a generous and caring person, who is making large commitments financially as well as emotionally to your partner. you want to marry her, have children, and you have been willing to bail her out of some of her difficult financial problems. you are agrieved by her not contributing financially and because of her expectations of you. am i right in thinking you feel like she is taking advantage of you?

the sense i get of your partner is she wants things done for her rather than doing things for herself. she has little patience with you and little consideration of your needs. she does not like talking about problems when she is repsonsible for them. she will find ways to make you feel bad when it is really her that is in the wrong.  she is unwilling to take responsibility for herself and expects you to take repsonsibility for her.

one thing i was confused about; you said that you proposed two weeks ago, but your fiancee ordered her dress two months ago. had you both planned to get married before you proposed?

What can we do? Everytime I bring it up she is really defensive saying , ‘you can’t afford a wife etc etc’.

you can afford a wife. a wife will not cost you anything. love is not something you can buy or sell. in saying this she is saying that you cannot afford her.

you need to talk things through with her, i know you have tried this and you have not gotten any where with her. but keep trying, you need her to talk about it, not to shout and become defensive but to listen to you and hear how things are for you, and for both of you to take repsonsibility for your own part in this problem. in essence you are contributing to this problem if you keep reinforcing her behaviour by bailing her out, paying her bills, and giving into her.

she will become more dependent on you to provide for her, you will end up in a parent/child type of relationship. wherein the child has a tantrum, the parent gives in or gets mad, child either gets their way or sulks and whines. this is not a healthy kind of relationship for either of you.

[ConsciousPuppet]

She seems to be dragging a frustration from her previous relationship regarding money. Apparently she was taken advantage of by her ex and might have "learned" not to trust men with her money, or to do the same, or simply is afraid it'll happen again?

How do these feelings awaken? She assigned her ex with the identity of "man", and had a very bad experience with "man". So now that identity belongs to you...
Have you talked to her about money issues in her past relationship?

[Enigma]

9 months of no sex and you're ready for marriage and children?  Mind if I ask how old you are?  How's your job security looking?  Kids aren't cheap, and if she is refusing to work then I'd hold off on having a kid till you tow have had a serious discussion about your financial situation. 

Anyway, as for suggestions, remember, people treat you how you let them treat you.  So stop being a doormat and paying for everything. 

[voodoo scientist]

If you're under 30:

You're getting married and you haven't had sex?  Are you aware that lack of sex is incredibly bad for your mental health? You have a biological imperative to procreate, or at least make your brain think you're procreating. I'm not a fan of Freud, but you both sound like you're incredibly sexually frustrated and are aggravated by stress and poor perceived relationship security, both direct effects of not having sex. If this is true (and it is unless you're both post-sexual), then she wants you to pay for her as a substitute for the neurochemistry that would be produced if you were giving her orgasms.

For a female to enter into a long term relationship, she needs to feel sure that her mate will stick around and help take care of the offspring once they're born. This is what leads many women to use sex as a bargaining tool, but since you're not having sex, your girlfriend has to use off-label tools to get her neurochemical fix, and you end up paying for everything. Without sex, the only way you can prove you're a suitable mate is by doing all her survival work (paying) for her so she's free to focus on eventual offspring.

Basically, if you're not getting your partner off and your partner's not getting you off, you're not in a relationship - orgasms are nature's way of saying "You are an acceptable mate and I'd like to mate with you." You can talk and touch and "fool around" and whatever the hell people who don't have sex do these days, but it doesn't produce the same neurochemistry you need to be a functional adult human being. Sorry.

[acousticeagle]

Drew, from what you've said the indicators are that what's been happening between you and her are not indicators for a good marriage. Look into her upbringing - was she giving everything by her parents and imbued therefore with a sense of privilege that she wants to project onto you?

Also look inside yourself and weigh up how these current pre-marriage problems could well escalate after the marriage. For as marriage progresses, and problems already exist, if one partner is displaying selfish behaviour that behaviour could blossom into full blown 'take-for-granted' behaviour.

Some relationships are unbalanced with one partner becoming the main 'giver' and the other more on the receiving end. You will not end up with the emotional nurturing YOU need. Indeed, as another commenter said, you sound like a caring person - but your fiance sounds like she will become only more burdensome to you. Especially when marriage secures her 'hold' over your emotional energy and finances.

She sounds like she leans heavily on you and won't take up her own responsibilities. Do you really want to enter into a marriage from a relationship that already shows symptoms of being dysfunctional? You could look on the 'bright side' and say "everything's going to be all right" but human nature being what it is, it is better to err on the side of pessimism. Trust what your intuition is saying to you about her.

Money is only money and, if you decide to end the relationship and find a more suitable partner (don't be in a rush for marriage - it is a lifelong commitment and to the wrong person it can be a prison term). I would also suggest you not be in a rush for children. Children need the stability of a healthy relationship between parents. And I would be careful to listen to future 'promises' by your finance - for she may be only using them to trap you in the relationship. She might be seeing you as a way out of her current financial (and other reasons) problems. But you sound like you are far more realistic.

[Karaten]

Are either of you religious?

[C0rnholio]

Just a note, this poop is over a year old. Hope he dumped her by now.

[Karaten]

Just a note, this poop is over a year old. Hope he dumped her by now.

I figured most posts on this board were ill conceived jokes anyways.

[k999]

Hi Drew
Most people fight about money and sex. I am worried for you that you are having trouble with both before you get married. For a relationship to be successful you have to be able to discuss things and understand each others feelings and to create a win-win solution. It sounds like you do all the compromising (which is win lose). I agree with another person's response. When you repeatedly give in you are sending a clear message that if she gets upset she will get what she wants. You are also saying to both of you that your feelings don't matter. After a while your resentment will build. If you are serious about getting married why not see a therapist so you can both understand what her triggers are around money and learn to communicate more effectively.

[Voix_Celeste]

You're getting married and you haven't had sex?  Are you aware that lack of sex is incredibly bad for your mental health?

Care to elaborate on this?

If this is true (and it is unless you're both post-sexual)

What "post-sexual" means?

[Big Psych]

Hello, thank- you for the forum. I wonder if people have some thoughts/suggestions on my  situation? My finacee and I have been going out for around 9 months and we have been very close. Two weeks ago I asked her to marry me and presented her with a stunning diamond ring. She said, “yes”, so far so good. However over our relationship there has been one thing that has caused me angst and it keeps coming back. That thing is her inability and or unwillingness to pay for anything. Don’t get me wrong, I am not mercenary and far from a miser but I am somewhat aggrieved by her expectation that I pay for everything. The situation has been compounded of late by her losing her job and a number of debts (read tens of thousands of dollars) from her previous relationship, where her boyfriend left without paying his share. Things came to a head last week when I received a text message from her out of the blue saying  I had agreed to pay for her wedding dress two months ago and it was ready and please confirm, the message had a kiss on the end of it. As way of background, two months ago she lost her job and was upset about paying for the dress. I said if you couldn’t pay don’t worry I will take care of it. So I did agree, but what aggrieved me was this message came without warning, not even via a telephone call and in the intervening two months I have paid for a pair of glasses for her and she had a car accident in my car for which I had to pay the excess.  Also there have been numerous dinners etc. She has literally not paid for a cup of coffee for me in this time, although she has bought the odd chocolate bar. Last week we were going to visit friends of her which was a long drive away, I thought she was getting ready and then she yelled that she was in the car, he tone was quite abrupt. She left the front door open and my dog ran up the street, granted she didn’t know the dog was in the front of the house, but she was in the car and not everything we needed to take did she have. She decided we were late, so we had to go. I became annoyed and drove off quickly which caused the cake she was holding on her lap to collapse, not by design but by accident. When we got to the friends we argued before we went in and the night, was strained. I had more to drink then I normally do (I am not a drinker) and became maudlin which was a bit embarrassing. We ended staying over (we are not sleeping together) and in the morning we argued on the way home. I have apologised for my behaviour since but the underlying problem is still there. She has said rather than get another job she could get the house ready for when we are married but I am not keen on that and have asked if she can keep working to at least pay down the debt. In the course of this argument she said she had been honest with her financial situation and if she keeps working, we will not be able to have children for a year. But she could work until she becomes pregnant. Even when she had a job she hardly paid for anything but she bought shoes here and there. I don’t want much just a sign. I have booked and paid for our wedding overseas which has cost me a lot. I feel there is a barrier over this but we do love each other and are respectful. What can we do? Everytime I bring it up she is really defensive saying , ‘you can’t afford a wife etc etc’. I have a good job and work hard I just want some progress.
Thanks for your thoughts
Drew.

Have you tried bringing this up with her?  Because if you can't broach the subject of behavior that irks you, your marriage is doomed to failure before it ever begins.  Man up and ask her.  Tell her how you feel.  If you can't come to a compromise that works, than the marriage is toast.  Better to find out now than after 3 years and a kid. 

Also, by the sounds of it, you've brought this on yourself.  You admit to agreeing to pay for the dress.  Then pay for it and quit bitchin'.  Accept responsibility for your own actions.  I would venture to guess that you've set up her expectations of you paying for everything by---wait for it---paying for everything.  It simply isn't fair for you to suffer in silence, allow resentment to build up, then want to blast HER for it.  You teach people how to treat you.  You got yourself into this mess, so you're gonna have to man up and admit your own shortcomings (to both her and yourself) hope she is willing to change the arrangement and work hard to stop the cycle of accepting what you don't like then resenting her for it.  Let me guess--your mom was overbearing as hell, huh?  Speak when spoken to, don't talk back, just do what I say kinda relationship, right?  It's playing out in your own relationships.

And what's this nonsense about not sleeping together?  For god sakes, you're going to attempt to spend the rest of your lives together.  Don't you think it's at least a little important to know if you two are sexually compatible? 

My official take:  You're not ready for marriage, no way no how.  If you don't mature, you'll be divorced within 5 years.

[wittoled]

Drewau2005,

I have an idea, why not show her this thread?